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221 Responses
Joel,
Very good statement. I try to stay grounded through all of the opinions of bible scholars and the exegesis of eschatologists through the words of Jesus Christ. If all things were made through him and he is literally the Word of God, then he is the “holy ghost writer” who dictated to the writers of the the entire bible. This is why the Olivet discourse is so powerful. Jesus himself verbally outlined the 70th week of Daniel to his followers, and later expanded on it in the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John at Patmos. The most significant clue/warning that He gives in the discourse is “when you see the Abomination the makes desolate, spoken of by Daniel the prophet … This is the most vivid sign that we are to look for, but the end is not yet. Speculation of blood moons, and the great sign of the woman, eclipses, who’s the AC etc is there to confuse and confound the elect. The problem for people is that when the Abomination is set up, the realization will set in that the AC has taken over the world and the Great Tribulation has begun. Fear, panic, and lawlessness and war -will unfold and the persecution of Jews and christians will begin. People don’t want to accept it, even though Jesus Christ has said it. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
September 23, 2017 is not going to be any revelatory date. Although the uniqueness of the events in the stars with the planets and virgo during this time is what’s important. that exact date is irrelevant. it’s powerful that it’s happening in these times. Now what IS interesting is the 10 Jubilee prophecy of Rabbi Judah ben Samuel, which prophesied Donald Trump exactly 10 jubilee’s from his date. Donald trump was born June 14 1946, first day as president was exactly 70 years 7 months and 7 days on Jan 21 2017. a man for Israel. Jerusalem Post is calling him a modern day Cyrus. This is the jewish year 777. President Donald Trump and vice president Mike Pence when put together even sound like trumpets (trump+pence).
What’s happening is we are entering into the age of Aquarius, this sign in the heavens is signifying of birth pangs during this switching of the procession of the equinox. Ultimately the earth will roll out of its place and we will get new heavens, meaning new constellations. And all will be fulfilled.
But the temple has to come and everything prior to this.
My husband and I want in on the bet on your side. We’ll raise it to a million. And we totally don’t have it in the bank.
Perfect.
Hi Joel, you mention that the true alignment of the stars to fulfill this sign happened in the first century. What was different about the alignment then as opposed to now?
Hi Eric,
Briefly, there is much that was unique that year. First and foremost of course was the fact that the King was born within the window that was defined by the prophets. I highly encourage you to get a copy of Dr. Heiser’s new book, Reversing Hermon. He has a whole chapter that addresses this topic—the many signs that all aligned that year. It was much more than just the stars. Rather it was a combination of biblical prophecies and the celestial alignment. Likewise, the Star of Bethlehem is worth watching as well. Also, to verify the things I state in the video regarding Jupiter, you can easily download Stellarium. Its relatively easy to figure out. While it is certainly possible that something could happen on one of the twelve year regular occurrences, it is important to make it clear that this year is not, as is falsely claimed, a one in every 7000 event. I hope this helps.
Blessings,
Joel
Hello Joel,
Another brilliant presentation on the Woman.
I am amazed just how much attention and reaction this “Star Constellation” has caused.
It is a prime example at how easy people can be led away from the Word of God and get caught up in fleshly teachings, the exact thing that the Word of God warns us not to do.
If The Woman in Rev 12:1 is a Constellation in the Heaven then the same has to be applied to the Red Dragon that is seen in the Heaven in Rev 12:3 and again to the 7 Angels seen in Heaven in Rev 15:1.
Also if the Woman and the Red Dragon are Star Constellations then they would have to also fulfil what they do as follows.
The Woman Constellation would also have to do the following:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Do we see any of the above verses in the Constellation?
No we don’t.
Also it is strange that a Star Constellation would go into a desert and God feeds the Star Constellation.
The Red Dragon Constellation would also have to do the following:
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Do we see any of the above verses in the Constellation?
No we don’t?
If they are all Constellations then we also have Gabriel fighting against Constellations
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
It is wise for us to believe the Word of God and not the fables of men.
God Bless you Joel for standing on the Simple Truth in Scripture.
Joel,
My personal policy on the matter of setting dates for end time events is – I can’t know the unknowable.
“But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.” (Mark 13:32) NASB
However, we can read the signs of the times and your ministry helps me in bringing all the noise into focus. Thanks again!
rt
Hi Joel
Appreciate your answer regarding my question on Daniel,
One other question if I may
Couple months ago you blocked me from Twitter @debimalcolm I Apologize if I offended you in any way wasn’t my intention
I enjoy following you on twitter, I am not on Facebook. Anyway I enjoy the interaction and knowledge between you & your friends for learning and meeting new believers
I would appreciate you unblocking me if at all possible ???? Peace and keep up the good work!!
Just an old soul / female Listening to God trying to wake me up for much work is needed And NO I am not a stalker
I know you’ve had people trolling you
Thanks
Debbie
Greetings in CHRIST, Joel:
Philip John Arpin ThD
As you say, many mistakes in past: certain.
We as teachers are often critiqued. It is good that such analysis persists.
Should we then cease to interpret prophecies because of a possible negative critique?
As in the past with error on “caught-up” interpretations this too may be too conjectural.
Should we cease therein to study and convey our observation? YHVH also created the heavens must be remembered?
Time will tell again whether this prophetic indicator is being properly interpeted. Is it an indicator of “the blessed hope”?
Much, much, much analysis is further indicated, needed, and this is a good thing, especially in light of some purely
astronomical observations as to what may appear to be a red dwarf with accompanying planets in sol’s shpere perhaps
indicative of “the great red dragon”.
These are exciting times.
In CHRISt,
Phil
For sure the rapture is not going to happen on Sep 23 this year, or this year at all:
“Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the [a]coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your [b]composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a [c]message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [d]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above [e]every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.”
Some are saying that this ‘sign’ will mark the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel (with the first resurrection-rapture 3 1/2 years later). Of course, this is still speculation, with or without a ‘sign’. All of this, though, is drawing the attention of believers to waken up to the times and seasons in which we live, and to get back to the Word of God in the whole of the Bible. .
I had a question about the Matthew 24 prophecy and didn’t know how to ask on your site, i saw this is the most recent video so I thought I’d ask here.
The reference to Noah and the rapture in Matthew 24:37-43 speaks of the people being 2 in the field and one will be taken, the other will stay, etc. It uses Noah and the ark as a model of reference to this rapture, my question is has anyone ever considered that we do NOT want to be taken? The people taken from the earth during the flood were the worldly sinners. Noah stayed on the earth and was saved THROUGH the tribulation. Likewise Daniel and the lions den, likewise Daniel’s friends in the fiery furnace, etc. There is more evidence of a saving THROUGH the tribulation. But my question is specifically for Matthew 24. When Christ comes do we want to be here “waiting on the Lord?” or do we wanna be “taken”?
I’m sure the answer to this question is extremely long regarding the tribulation, but can you keep your answer brief specific to the Matthew prophecy and maybe tell me which person we want to be in matthew 24:40.
HI Kevin,
Yes, of course, the one taken is the one taken in judgment.
Blessings
So that being said do we want to be raptured or kept here on earth through the tribulation?
The answer to me used to be obvious, the raptured group get to escape the tribulation, but that verse in Matthew 24:40 is almost like saying we have it backwards.
Hi Bradley,
I had a very long and very nice conversation with Scottie Clark today. I have also corresponded with another gentleman who has also written a book on this and dedicated the last few years to this topic. Rather than continue to debate this subject, I will simply say that we will have to wait and see. I did read your “rebuttal.” Rather than address the various errors you made, I will simply say that after September 23, there will no longer be any debates on this matter. At that time, you may apologize for your very unChrist-like insults.
Many Blessings,
Joel
You know it’s been just over 7 years since I’ve been saved. At the time I enlisted in the military thinking that’s where God wants me. Now I’m about to be hired onto a local fire department thinking this is my service to God,. I watch your videos and I read your stuff and I can’t help but think I want to get involved. but for me the million dollar question is ‘how?’. I’ve prayed on the matter often enough and I believe the fire dept IS the best I can do, but I want more.
You spoke at a church in one of your videos and mentioned very briefly about the underground church in Iran. I don’t want to be just some Christian who has Christ here in my living room, I want to get involved some how some way. Now I help anyone that comes in my path whenever I see someone. I do what I can,
Is there any suggestions you would recommend to sort of get ‘my skin in the game’ in a more tangible way? I really want to involve myself over seas because that’s where I think we’re needed. The only thing that came to mind was firefighters without borders. Now I’m hopeful (god willing) trump builds the third temple. I’d be on the first plane out to help. But is there any web sites or movements I can get involved with? And I don’t mean just donating some cash on a site. I want to physically do something.
Thanks a bunch
It’s such a shame Joel, people seem to be drawn to extra biblical theories as though they’re new revelation from God.
Jesus spoke very clearly in Mathew 24. Speaking to his followers he said the celestial signs to look for were at the end of the tribulation.
I remember when it occurred to me that the angels gathering the saints in v31 was indeed the rapture and not the collecting of the Jews as I’d been taught, because when the Jews are bought home at the end of the age, the angels won’t be bringing them. Isa 66:20 says they will come back on horseback, in chariots, on mules and swift beasts to his holy mountain. God will even dry up the tongue of the Egyptian sea so they can cross over. Isa 11:15.
As you say Joel these things do great harm, saints become discouraged, while the world mocks.
If we just keep to the simplicity of what Jesus says, we can then just get on with the real job at hand.
Hi Kevin,
You can always volunteer for various ministries doing work among the refugees throughout Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq. Of course, it would have to be shorter term with your job, but it may meet that desire you have a bit more. Of course, one need not go overseas to get involved in reaching out to refugees here in the states, and witnessing to the firefighters and all you come into contact with. You can check with FAI, one of my partner ministries, as well as Antecessor, and several other great ministries doing work on the front lines.
Blessings!
Thanks Joel I’ll definitely look at Antecessor and FAI.
Reading your response here led me on a google search and I came across an interview done by yourself and Adnan Oktar. The article can be found at http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/106055/
I’ve seen this interview by you years ago I know it’s old, but I read it and never occurred to me that Gentiles, Jews, AND muslims would want to rebuild the third temple. I originally thought it was just a Jew and Christian thing.
Clearly the third temple is the missing piece of the puzzle in the end times, however where do you stand on it? For or against it? I’ve talked to a ton of people on it, and I have been shocked at how many Christians are against anything to do with Israel.
Thoughts?
I’m not in favor of this kind of temple. Jesus will restore a Temple during His coming reign as described in Ezekiel 40-48.
I was under the impression this third temple that’s supposed to be built in the court of the gentiles is the final temple. Mid-tribulation the islamic antichrist (12th imam) is supposed to do what muslims do and convert it to a mosque and all (literal) hell breaks loose.
I value the heck out of your insight and I’m curious why you think that the temple Jesus restores will be separate from the third temple. That third temple in Ezekiel 40-48 IS the temple I’m talking about. The Temple Institute in Jerusalem is supposed to be building Ezekiels temple.
Now what I thought was that the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21, and the temple of Christ spoken of in Revelation 21:22 was the temple of our bodies where Christ now dwells.
My question is how will Christ restore a Temple that’s different to the one that the temple institute wants to build from Ezekiel 40-48
The Temple that will be rebuilt will be largely desolated by the Antichrist and destroyed when Jesus returns. The Temple described in great detail by Ezekiel is vastly larger than anything that could fit on the present Temple Mount. This will be there during the 1000 millennium. After this, there is no longer any temple.
See I was under the impression it could fit perfectly in the court of the gentiles, that changes everything.
Thanks!
Joel
as an aside, I am fascinated to see a shift in direction from Israel regarding the strategy of peace. Going from a 2-state solution, to looking to the wider gulf states for a wider peace framework (if you would call it that). Something to watch for I guess considering the ‘covenant of peace’ made between the Islamic Antichrist and Israel in Revelation.
Bless you and am loving your books!
RD
Hi Joel, Wonderful program. I have just one observation about Virgo. I am assuming this sight is to be seen with the naked eye at nightime. Nightime being when the Constellations can be observed. If the Moon is at the Virgins feet, then the Sun would be opposite side of Earth. For at no time could anyone observe both the Sun and the Moon at the same time within the small angular space of a Constellation at night with the naked eye. It’s an impossibility. Perhaps the word ‘Sun’ in Scripture is describing some other bright heavenly body unknown to us which is yet to come and obviously would not be included in any astronomy software that we have to date. So it’s a mystery in my view. What do you think about this idea? Thank you Joel for all you do.
It cannot be seen as it would be day. Thus these things could be observed through mathematical calculations. But I think the sun here is the sun. This was the alignment when Jesus was born.
Brother Joel, I have a friend asking about giving to legitimate bible distribution.
Who would you recommend?
https://www.elam.com/fb/bibles/2575
or
https://www.worldcompassion.tv/bibles-for-iran/
or another ministry?
Those both look great.
Hello Joel, this is a Biblical response to the One Taken and the other left behind that was mentioned on the 17th of February. I believe my comment is needed and will bring much light and truth. Please consider.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be ( taken), and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be ( taken), and the other left.
There are varied views on the meaning of the above verses.
It is Extremely Critical that before we express our views we MUST first of all look at the Greek Word that is used in the New Testament for taken.
The Greek Word is “paralambano” it is number G3880 in the Strongs Concordance.
Paralambano means “To Receive”, “to Take Near to Oneself”, “To Receive to Oneself”, “To Take into Ones Possession”, “To Take One as an Associate or Companion”.
Paralambano is used 50 times in the New Testament, nowhere does it mean to Destroy.
It is very clearly a word that means relationship, bringing to oneself.
Here is just one example in the New Testament where that Greek Word is used.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to (take unto thee) Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Joseph was Receiving to himself Mary to be his Wife.
Joseph did not destroy Mary, He actually Received Mary to himself to be his “Companion, His Associate, His Wife”.
Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and ( took unto him) his wife:
Let me now place the proper meaning of the word Paralambano into the two Verses in Matthew 24.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be “Received to ones self as an associate, as a Companion”, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be “Received to oneself as an Associate, as a Companion”, and the other left.
Here are some other verses as an example.
Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus (taketh) Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Look at the Beautiful Verses below.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and (receive you unto myself); that where I am, there ye may be also.
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye (have received), and wherein ye stand;
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
In all 50 Verses in the New Testament where “Paralambano” is used it is completely consistent, it means to bring to ones side, to be a companion, to Receive.
It DOES NOT mean to destroy.
Jesus is Coming and he will Receive us to Himself, He will Gather us all together to Himself.
I am actually just about finished doing a Blog on the Above.
David,
With all due respect, this is not the meaning of the passage. First, it should be noted that other verses which you selectively did not cite in the New Testament use the word in a very negative sense:
Worse yet, you didn’t quote the previous verse which establishes the context:
The meaning is clear. In Noah’s day, those “taken” were taken away by the flood in judgment. The one “left” is the one who remained alive and thus was saved. It’s very clear.
Blessings,
Joel
Hello Joel,
Thanks for your response.
Sorry!
I did not mean to come across in a manner where I ignored any verses on purpose, because there were 50 verses I did not want to bring up all.the verses in the comment. I was just showing that the word does not mean to destroy but means to bring along ones side. I was presenting a positive side rather than just focusing on the Judgement. The verses you showed are correct and even though being negative the word still shows that there is a taking to oneself as in Matthew 12:45 and 27:27.
God can draw one to his side and Satan also can draw one to his side.
I am aware of Matthew 24:39 and it clearly shows that. Noah and his family (received Salvation) entered into the Ark before Judgement came, God delivered his people and closed the door and then Judged the earth.
On the same Day Lot left Sodom Judgement came. Salvation first then Judgement.
In the same manner we will be raptured into the Air (Salvation) before Judgement comes on the Earth.
I was actually confirming Matthew 24:39 in that God Brings Salvation before He brings Judgement.
Matthew 24:39 clearly shows that Noah and his family were given Salvation first, they literally lifted up anchor in the Ark.
Then Judgement came, Noah and his family were lifted up above the Judgement.
I certainly want to be lifted up into the air above the earth in the rapture rather than remain on the earth and receive the Judgement of God.
Blessed are those in the First Resurrection.
Sorry if it appeared misleading.
Everything does add up. The red dagon =(satan)… dragon = satan red= war Keep in mind the red horse in Rev. is war… the red dragon is satan. Red equals war. The red dragon means the war in the heavens when satan and the fallen angels will be cast down to earth. The seven heads are the seven new planets just discovered or rather uncovered. The dwelling place of these demonic beings which is in the heavenly realms. It says the red dragon will have seven heads and ten horns. If you multiply 10×7 it equals seventy. There were 70 fallen angels that fell with with Lucifer. The dragon drawing a third of the stars to earth is satan and his demons being cast down to earth after the war in heaven. Very hard times will be on the way. For it says that in Ephesians 6:12 For we do not struggle with flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces in the heavenly realms. It further says in
Ephesians 2:2
in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. * note* the sons of disobedience are the fallen angels, or rather Satan’s demons. They will be cast down at this time onto earth. I believe tribulation will begin at this time.
Blessings
I feel Yeshua haMashiach will return around 2027.
Joel, this is a cut and paste from my facebook page. It pertains to the Sept 23rd. Sign. ”
For some time now I have been contemplating the verse in Matthew 24 wherein it states, “Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” I have asked myself, “What is this sign?” It has to be something that everyone will see and recognise for what it is. Then today, while watching a video concerning astronomy in the Bible, it hit me! You are all familiar with the story of the Magi, their seeking out the one who is born “King of the Jews”, Herod the Great having all the male children in Bethlehem under two years of age murdered, etc. The signs in the heavens that these wise men followed are believed to have been handed down by Daniel and his descendants that stayed in Babylon. These Magi knew what to look for in the heavens and they knew what it meant. John the Revelator saw a vision in heaven that is believed to mimic what those Magi were looking for, and saw. It is clearly described in Revelation 12. “And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, (Rev 12:1-5)
If this is not the “sign of the Son of Man”, I don’t know what is! This exact stellar alignment has not happened again since it first heralded the coming of the King, when he was born in Bethlehem. This September, after 2000 years, it will happen again. “Then will appear in heaven THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN!” He’s coming folks, he’s really coming…and I can’t wait….even so Lord Jesus, come. Shalom and Amen and Amen.
James,
The sign is that which is mentioned multiple times by the prophets, Jesus and Revelation. The Sun goes black and the moon turns blood red. It is not a non-existent alignment in the stars that happens every 11-12 years. The alignment when Jesus was born was unique and is was comprised of several other issues. It is not happening this year. I also highly encourage you to read Alan Kurschner’s books on the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church. Very convincing if one will give it a chance.
Blessings,
Joel
Thank you Joel, I was very concerned and scared about this date but reading your messages has made me feel better about all of this! Thank you for all the great help!
Please explain to me when the normal retrograde of Jupiter is 120 days every year, why does it stay in Virgo’s womb for a full nine months? Based on a 30 day month, let’s say, is 270 days (approx) Trying to understand why this sign would not be biblical or prophetic since wandering planets to the Jews are called wandering stars.
Jupiter wanders into Virgo every eleven or twelve years. Despite what is being claimed, this year, it does not stay in Virgo’s womb for nine months. It goes into her womb for a couple months, passes out for a couple months and then back in for a few months. The total time if you include the few months where it is just outside her womb is eleven months, not nine.
Excellent stuff, Joel. Readers might like to Google “Ready for Rapture Astrology?” on Treena Gisborn’s UK blog “Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing.”
Why do you use a masons, Jesuit, and pagan symbol with your sight? The square within a square and the egyptian sun disc in the middle? These are also symbols within the Catholic Church. These are things not to follow but yet you publish them openly. Very curious as to your answer. But I am sure you won’t publish this question or the answer.
Hi Joy,
Symbols do not have some inherent meaning or power. Any given symbol has many different meanings. As Paul says, “To the pure all things are pure.” In other words, symbols only have the power that one ascribes to it. While the Magen David star may be a pagan sign to you, to most, it simply symbolizes the current state of Israel. As a lifelong artist, I have a love for the history of art and architecture. When I made my web-site some years ago, I chose an image of a piece of ceramic tile that had an image that represents the Jews, another that represents the Muslim world (the inside of the Dome of a Mosque), and an image of an icon of Jesus. This represents the main people I am called to minister the Gospel to. While you may believe these signs all have some evil power, I believe the Lord is so much bigger and more powerful than Satan. Satan doesn’t own shapes or symbols anymore than Satan owns all goats. Others have asked about the statues behind me. These are from Iran, given to me as a gift by my friends who lead the underground Church there. One is a Sassanid soldier, essentially the ancient Green Berets of Persia, and the other is Cyrus (the Lord’s anointed).
I pray you will receive what I am about to say as a brother, but I hope that will grow beyond the relative superstitiousness that has caused you to assume the worst about a brother. Not everything is an evil conspiracy.
May the Lord Bless you,
Joel
Hello Joel,
So I have struggled with a bombardment of what to believe, what to do? I firmly believe in Christ although I do fall short daily. So I come to you as a child with an open mind for you to lead me to some sort of clarification. If you may. For Christ sis say for us to be open minded like a child.
So, for years I have struggled with doubts of the rapture. My reasoning for this is, as we a chastised by the father from time to time and tempted by Satan and we still fall short to the model that came for us to follow. Now in the sense that Christ endured a great punishment and a punishment that he did not deserve. So, for us to be concrete and unshaken in our gratitude what if we are made to endure the tribulation but the rapture is in fact a receiving of Christ maybe the receiving is the ability to refuse the mark no matter what we see or is done to us. For surety of where you are going once you perish is in fact a great gift. Also we are given the number 144,000 and Christ saying those that endure th unto the end are surely blessed. I believe is how the scripture goes. I could be wrong. The thing is that my faith that Christ is real is unshakeable but my position in the afterlife for some reason I have trouble with. I suppose I may have a polluted mind through all of the years of religion courses and having non religious professors actually atheist professors that brought into light the quote en quote banned books of the Bible. Doubt is a powerful agent and it says Satan will use this to deceive. I have also researched the strange signs in the sky as of recent and the Incoming solar system and although the evidence is compelling if those heavenly bodies were close enough for them to be as large as the “orbs” they highlight our planet would be in grave distress. So sometimes I see what they have covered up and wondered why the one swath of a 360 degree sky in google covers and removes the coordinates that in 2007 were published via a German individual. Just so much information overload I am in need of clarity and pray you can help sir.
I thank you in advance.
What should you do? Be prepared for whatever comes. You don’t have to worry about the time or date.
Rev. 20:7 “And behold, I am coming quickly. [a]Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) is the one who heeds and takes to heart and remembers the words of the prophecy [that is, the predictions, consolations, and warnings] contained in this book (scroll).”
Thank you for your video. Lots of great information.
If you pointed to the signs in the sky that pointed to the birth of Jesus Christ, you would have been told you were wrong, because nothing happened. Nothing that you could see pointed to the King of Kings being conceived or born. But as we know this was in fact true. Once again I don’t know what the signs on September 23, 2017, and it does not matter. We all should be prepared every day.
You focus on “scholars” and commentaries to tell you if something is true or not true. Having produced hundreds of textbooks for major publishers, I would not base what I think of “scholars,” books or commentaries. I would read what they say, but I would not base my faith on it.
Mark,
I do not base my faith on what Christian scholars say. My point in citing authorities on this matter is to show that much of the pop ideas found on Youtube concerning this matter are not rooted in a careful or thorough examination of the topic. Humility says we should consider the words of those who have dedicated their lives to some particular topic. Of course they can be wrong, but studying what other men and women have concluded on various matters is not a bad starting point as we form our own opinions.
Dear Brad,
I think some people have a hard time believing in a pretrib rapture because they feel it’s too good to be true or we don’t deserve it and I agree. But I also believe our God is overflowing with mercy and love and while we may deserve to go through the tribulation I don’t believe we will. This fall something is going to happen. Not only is this celestial alignment happening on the Feast of Trumpets, but if you look at St Malachys prophecy and the Prophecy of 10 Jubilees they all point to “now”! Jesus said there will be an hour of trial, a testing, and to pray that we may be counted worthy to escape. So that is exactly what I do. Your not the only one feeling an information overload. There is a lot unfolding happening. As far as your position in the afterlife, dont ever forget John 3:16. Pre, mid, post trib, Sept 23 or some other day, all you have to do is believe and accept!
AMEN,,,Joel,,,,, I have been combating this and other false doctrine for sometime now,,,, it’s always ,,,, something is going to happen,,,,here is the key to all scripture and how to interpret it,,,,,2Peter v1:20,,and v21,,,also 2Peter 3 v14 to 18,,,,the Holy Spirit gave us the scripture,,,,He knows the interpretation and unless He gives us the reamah revilation people will do what is written in the aforementioned scriptures ,,,,WELL DONE,,,
I am just testing if anyone can comment on here?
Blood moon tetrads 2014-2015,, Bethleem star in 2015, Virgo with a crown in 2017, what’s next?.
Are we in a hunt to find Bible signs in the sky? Or are we too wise to recognize them?
Matthew 13
35 So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”
Matthew 11
25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Matthew 24
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Joel,
I saw you on YouTube, talking about the Revelation 12 sign and 9/23/2017. Thanks for your work.
Disregarding the whole “Jupiter-in-the-womb-for-9-months” angle, can you tell me if your research shows the simultaneous alignment of Leo, the 3 planets, Virgo, Jupiter, etc in other years? I came across a spreadsheet someone made that purports to show that this particular simultaneous alignment is indeed rare.
Apologies if someone has already asked this. I didn’t read this entire thread.
Thanks,
Howard
Howard,
Whether to is rare or not is largely irrelevant. Leo plus three planets is not what is intended to represent the crown. The crown is always there as represented by the 11 prominent stars in Coma Berenices. As I mention in the video, its most prominent star is actually called the Diadem, or Crown. Those trying to claim Leo the Lion suddenly stops being Leo and becomes a crown this September are simply trying to create a “great Sign” where none exists. The result will be another frenzy of expectation this fall, followed by another round of great disappointment. I wish I could say otherwise.
Blessings,
Joel
Kudos to you Joel! The one fish swimming upstream against the current! I so appreciate the calm and logic manner in which you presented this rebuttal. I have appreciated your grounded teaching in the past and will certainly continue to follow your voice of reason. I watched many of the videos on this subject and even printed out 89 pages of a research document on this subject by Jaco Princloo who based it on Scottie Clarke’s “revelation”. I was definitely fascinated but I was not fully convinced in my spirit. Then I asked the Holy Spirit to show me truth which scripture promises and to give me an open mind to receive and I “Binged” (I don’t Google anymore) September 23, 2017 and found your video calling it a false sign. I was familiar with your sound teaching and books so I was not disappointed with your presentation. I thank God for your heart that loves and protects the sheep from every wind of doctrine.
I see in many comments many people still do not rightly divide scripture referring to the rapture taking the Church home vs scripture referring to Jesus’ second coming to finally establish His kingdom on earth. The “mystery” of the rapture was given to Apostle Paul and he alone to reveal it (I Cor 15:51-52; I Thess 4:16-17) just as the “mystery” of the gospel of grace was given to him alone…not taught by any man but given in direct revelation by Christ Jesus Himself.(Gal 1:11-12). Christ’s approach in the rapture is described quite differently from his approach at His second coming which will be on a white horse with the troops of heaven following on white horses, etc. (Rev.19:11-14). Your insight on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Deeply appreciated Jeanette.
Many Blessings to you!
Joel
Hello beloved,
The day of Jesus’ coming does not know, what we can do is seek to live in communion with the Father through his grace manifested in Christ, for our sake.
Regardless of which day it will be, may we be worthy to meet the Master in the heavens.
God bless you all.
Dear Mr.Joel .. You have led the people to believe your belief , God didn’t send you a vision nor elaborated anything to you by confirmation or any proof other than the contradiction of what you are portraying. You want people to believe what you are saying and persuading others to believe the crap Satan layed upon you. God is the only one to preach this Sermon. Not Joel, Not anyone. Your time of speaking is done in the name of Jesus you are not helping others to the Signs and Symbols he lays before us. So do everyone a favor and keep speaking on this and watch God show you. You people want to speak in terminologys only to impress yourselves and possibly others but all I see is meaningless words. Hopefully whatever hits the earth and maybe not on Sep.23 2017 on this exact date. But how dare u question God’s signs clearly he said No Man nor Angel knows the time nor Hour of his Arrival. And Lord forbid God doesn’t Strike you for leading others not to believe in his Signs. The Lord may not return on Sep.23 2017 but believe yes coming maybe sooner . Do the world a favor and close your mouth you have no knowledge other than what he gives you. You can wake up with an mental issue by tomorrow not knowing how to Tie your shoes. It funny how Humans want to tell you anything , I Look for signs Just like my Father had revealed to me. You should do the same as the Wise Men were who were also astronomers and Found the Sign which the father had gave them. God shall make the First .. Last and the Last First. Those with knowledge of earth to be taught of the ones who obtain the truth. Good Day to you Mr.Joel. And I pray God doesnt send a terrible destruction your way once this matter happens it shall be an Eye Opener for you all.
Justin,
We are called to be Bereans, which means testing all things. You should not chastise someone for obeying the Lord, and for caring for the flock. It may be disappointing, but there is no great sign this year. Put your hope in Jesus, not every passing phase claim of some great sign. After this, no doubt, others will come.
Blessings,
Joel
Joel, do you believe that Christ will return on a Jewish feast day? I’ve heard very compelling arguments for this, since he fulfilled so many things on these days while on earth.
Eric.
I would think yes, and yes, Yom Teruah would likely be the day.
Dear Joel, regarding the taken, I agree with your point on the context: For example, “But understand this: If the owner of the house had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.…” The Son of Man, in this context is like the thief. A thief takes your prized possession away. We are His possession and after the Tribulation (thillipsus) are we not the ones taken away? One further point, one could contend that Noah was taken away from destruction, whereas the wicked remained and perished. Surely those that remain, will experience the ‘orgay’ (wrath) of God/judgement poured out. Therefore, those taken – Could they be the righteous – taken away from the impending destruction?
So what is this, am I going to remain miserable every day of my life.??? You expect me to “endure to the end” when I’m so miserable and no one will help me with my problems??? I expect the rapture to happen by 2018 like the bible says. I’m so tired of being robbed of my joy, I want out !!!
Paul wrote that the rapture would take place at the last trump. This is the 100th trumpet blast that ends the Feast of Trumpets. This destroys the teaching that Jesus can return at any moment. God has followed his calendar thus far. Jesus died on the Passover; He arose from the dead on the Feast of First Fruits; He sent the Holy Spirit on Pentecost; and he will rapture us at the end of the Feast of Trumpets! Jesus said there would be signs in the heaven and in the earth. Blood moons and solar eclipses are signs from the Almighty. The Mazzaroth tells the gospel story. As a Bible believer, I can’t dismiss the sign that appears on September 23, 2017 as having no meaning, especially when it coincides with the end of the Feast of Trumpets. Don’t be too quick to call it a false sign!
The first problem Van is that this sign was already fulfilled when Jesus was born. The second problem is that Jupiter passes through Virgo every 11 or 12 years while coinciding with Trumpets. So why is this so special? The third problem is that the moon is not clothing the woman on September 23. It is long past Virgo by that point. The fourth problem is that Jupiter is not in Virgo for nine months as Scotty Clarke and several others falsely claim. The fifth problem is the really bad exegesis involved in making this about the rapture. Jupiter is “the King Planet.” So it would seem obvious that the King Planet represents Jesus the Messiah who will rule the nations with a rod of iron as the passage says. However, desperate for it to be about the rapture, Scotty Clarke suddenly had a revelation that Jupiter actually represents the Church. Yes, we will co-rule with Him, but we are most certainly not the King. I could go on and on and on. Basically, this whole thing is a manufactured sign. Yes, this time of the year is something to watch for, but this year will not be the rapture. Let us be about the work of God.
Be Blessed,
Joel
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
The first problem Joel is, this is a future event, as is everything after Rev. chapter 3. Even though it is easy to see Rev 12 pictures the birth of Christ, as with many scriptures there is a dual meaning since this event is yet future. The second problem is your claim that the moon is not clothing the woman on September 23; the Bible states it as at her feet, which it is on that date. The third problem is Jupiter is in the womb while the 9 stars of Leo & 3 planets are at her head. This, to me, is the sign of Rev. 12. The fourth problem is your claim the rapture will not happen this year. That is a big statement to come from any man. The fifth problem is to say it is a manufactured sign. Who placed the sun, moon, and stars in the heavens? John saw a sign in the heavens, in the future! I could go on and on and on. Basically, people are going to ignore this if they are post-trib and pre-tribbers are going to have their hopes of Christs return for his bride increased. Yes, the feast of trumpets will end with the rapture, some year, and very possible this year, even though it goes against your eschatological beliefs. Obviously, we are at polar opposites concerning this issue. The nice thing is you are my brother in the Lord and we can respectfully disagree. Stay busy preaching the gospel! See you in heaven someday! God bless you as you faithfully serve him!
Van,
Again, the birth of the King is not a future event. It is past. You and I agree on this. Jupiter is the King Planet. The King is not going to be born again in the future. There is no basis to say that the entirety of the vision is purely future. Certainly various prophecies have a dual fulfillment, but again, the King is only born once long ago. The Church may be the body of Messiah, but we are most certainly not the King.
While the moon is at the woman’s feet on September 23, Jupiter will have already left Virgo’s womb 10 days previously. Beyond that, on September 23, the sun is not clothing the woman. Its up near her head. Yet it was actually indeed clothing the woman on the day that Jesus was born. That sign was not manufactured.
The idea that the crown on her head is a combination of Leo, the Lion, the royal constellation, the King constellation, plus three planets is simply nonsense. I apologize for being so adamant about this, but its just silly to say that Leo is suddenly transformed from a lion into a giant crown. This is just an effort to manufacture “a sign.” The crown of 12 stars is always there. The twelve star cluster known as Coma Berenices is always there. Its primary star is specifically know as “the diadem.” How clear is that?
The only reason I am showing the problems with all of this is because the so-called signs are simply not aligning as proponents of this “sign” are claiming. And the end result is that many people will be very disappointed later this year. Just like 1988. And for trying to prevent this disappointment, for trying to warn those who will listen, I am been quite viciously attacked. I would say that few issues I have addressed have brought more anger and outright name calling from fellow believers. It’s been really sad to watch. We are called to be Bereans. I have done my best to do just that. Obviously, time will tell, and I would most certainly love to be wrong, but I am willing to lay it all on the line that on September 24, all will continue as it is today. Let us be about the work of God.
Blessings,
Joel
Rev. 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The claim Rev 12:5 has no meaning in the future is to miss the promise to the overcomers of Rev CH 2 & 3.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
We will rule with a rod of iron, with Jesus.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
We will sit down with Jesus in his throne!
Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
This seems to lend credence to the sign of Rev 12: 1-2 as needing to take place before God turns back to Israel to deal with them as a nation because of his everlasting covenant he has with them. If as you claim this has been fulfilled with the birth of Jesus that would mean Jesus gave them up when he was born, and that does not fit the scriptures!
Your claim that it is really bad exegesis to make this about the rapture seems wrong to me. The fact is, that within the very book these verses are found, they point to the overcomers as being the man child of Rev 12:5, which is yet future according to Rev 4:1. This is the way we should rightly divide the word of God, and you know this! …and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. This is the overcomers who are “caught up” (harpazo) unto God and his throne. The similarity to John being taken to the throne of God after hearing a voice like it was a trumpet definitely mirrors what will take place at the rapture.
I fail to see how you can disregard these verses. You seem to be very confident in your belief but I hope you take time to not only look over these verses but to ask God to show you the meaning. The best of scholars only knows a little when it comes to God’s word. I don’t claim to know much, I’m just thankful to God he convicted me saved me. I do desire to know him better as I’m sure you do too. I always have struggled with those who see things so opposite from what I do. The Holy Spirit sure doesn’t contradict himself as he ministers to our hearts. Thanks for your responses!
Your brother in Christ,
Van
Van,
Its quite simple. The Bible says that we will be co-rulers with Jesus the King, but in no way shape or form does this mean that we are actually the king. to infer such is to bend logic. Scotty Clarke began his “revelation” specifically because of the fact that Jupiter, “the King” planet was in Virgo. Then he had a new revelation that Jupiter represents us. Yes, we will be caught up, and yes, we will co-rule with him, but to say that “the King” planet actually represents us is to twist the analogy to create a sign that simply is not there.
I apologize if this is discouraging to you. I’ll not continue to argue this, as I think folks are determined to believe this despite the facts. and of course, arguing will not change the future. Four more months and it will be clear. I hope it will be followed by genuine repentance by those who have been misleading so many over this matter.
Blessings,
Joel
Joel,
Thank you so much for your sound and sober assessment of this sign in the sky mania. I loved your call to the church to be about our Lord’s business and to be focused on evangelism and leading as many people to Christ as we can, rather than obsessing over someone’s rapture-date speculation hobby.
Well done, good and faithful servant!
Billie
Hi Joel; When Jesus ascended up to the the throne of God in Acts the Greek word is epairo which means He was lifted up. Slow enough, in fact that the disciples watched Him go and then a cloud received Him out of their sight. Yet the word in Rev 12 for the man child being caught up is harpazo which means to forcefully and violently seize quickly snatch up. How does that have anything to do with Jesus resurrection or ascension to the throne of God?
Dale,
When Jesus was taken up, there are various Greek words used to describe it. There is analambanō as well as epairō and diïstēmi. In Greek, as in English, every word has a range of meaning, and there is also more than one word for any given thing being described. For example, beyond the word harpazo, there are other words used in the New testament to describe the rapture, such as episynagōgē which means “gather together.” One event, multiple words. This is how language works.
Now, Jesus said that no man knows “the day or the hour.” Do you believe you know the day?
Second, if September 23 is the day of the rapture, as some are leading so many to believe, then why is she not clothed with the sun on that day? The sun is still over her shoulder on September 23. Yet it was indeed on her body on September 11, 3 BC, when Jesus was born.
Blessings,
Joel
Hi Joel,
I just happen to stumble onto this site and binge watched about 7-8 or your videos. Great stuff here and I consider myself lucky to have happened across it. I like most of the topics you are discussing and an appreciate your clam, collected demeanor when discussing heavy topics. I have been in the faith for a while and not a lot of topics are brand new to me but I saw a couple posts on this video thread that I have never considered. I would like you to clarify something if you could sir?
Kevin Charles posted a very interesting question: “So that being said do we want to be raptured or kept here on earth through the tribulation?”
His previous post was in reference to Matthew 24:37-47 which references Noah and the “rapture”.
I think is a rather fascinating question-one of which I don’t have an opinion at the moment. I have never considered a rapture to be anything other than a rapture of the Church.
Hope you can answer, but if not I really enjoy the videos!
Zach
No one “wants” to go through tribulation, but that is somewhat irrelevant. All pre-tribbers believe that Israel will go through the time of Jacob’s Trouble while we are gone. In my opinion, if the Jews are to be persecuted by Satan during this time, I would prefer to be here, even if difficult, so as to serve those without whom I would not be in the faith, and perhaps save some. Sorry for such a brief response.
Very humble response. Thank you Joel, gives me a lot to think about.
Hi Joel,
thank you for your patience with eyeryone and answering all the questions here in this forum in a very humble way! I know this may be a bit off topic but besides the discussion on “THE SIGN”, it has also been argued lately that in 2017 something big must be going to happen to Israel since it has been 500 years now from the year 1517 (10 Jubelees from the year of reformation), 100 years (2 Jubilees) from the Balfour Declaration, 70 years (!) from founding Israel as a nation (UN resolution), 50 years from the Six-Day War and so forth. Do you believe something big will be happening to Israel this year – maybe a major war again? Would appreciate your view on that!
Sincerely,
Herwig
Hi Herwig,
Something big could happen any year. Nearly anything is possible. And of course, time will tell.
Blessings,
Joel
Hi Joel I was intending to visit Israel this year between 11-25 September and have booked my flights and hotel. I am going on my own and leaving my wife and kids to see the glorious land. I then stumbled across Scotty Clark’s theory and it has to be honest freaked me out. I couldnt bear to be away from my family if the rapture was to occur and would much rather be with them and witness.. I then read about the 10 Jubilee prophecy of Rabbi Judah ben Samuel which seems to predict this year as the year of great significance. This is all totally new to me. I know you’ve spoken a lot about the sign in heaven but can you give me your views about Rabbi Judah Ben Samuels predictions and anything else about what he has said as I seek to come to a conclusion on this subject.
John,
Go to Israel. Is Rabbi Judah ben Samuel a Messianic believer? If not, does He have the Holy Spirit? If not, then why allow some prophecy to unnerve you? Anything can happen at any time. This year is no different. I’ll be in Australia away from my family at that time having a great time ministering the Gospel to His people, preparing for the actual biblical events that are looming on the horizon.
Rob,
In no way does it mean that every element of what is described must be future. It simply is not the case.
Rob,
First, I am not a pre-tribber. I hold to the pre-wrath via of the rapture. Second, the portion of Rev. 12 that speaks of the woman giving birth to Jesus the King has already been fulfilled. You just acknowledged this in your previous comment. It was this specific sign that led the Magi to Jesus.
The angel said he was about to show John things about to take place. He then proceeded to do just that. The text does not say “exclusively” future events in some rigid sense. This is how normal communication and language works.
Blessings,
Joel
The child who is born is caught up to God, and is never once referred to with the plural “they.” That this speaks of Jesus’ birth is beyond question.
Second, I do not allow this site to be used by those seeking to self-promote their own sites. Your posts with your links have been removed.
Rob,
I’ve taken away any word from the Book. Rather you literally have sought to add the words “exclusively” and “they” neither of which are there.
“I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book” —Revelation 22:18
Joel,
I just watched this after watching these youtube videos and your interpretation by far is the best counter argument to these claims. My only question is more of confusion with part of this sign being already fulfilled and the other part not yet fulfilled. I completely understand the first part being fulfilled representing Christ being born and that the alignment has already happened along with other signs that caused the magi to make a move. What part of the prophesy is yet to be fulfilled? The Dragon sweeping a third of the stars to earth? And is the constellation hydra representative of the dragon? Please point me in the right direction.
Joel,
Thanks so much for this video you took the time to make. I did not catch up it until the 9th of June 2017.
Actually,being quite confused by all other opinions of this September 23rd sign, I thought of seeing if you had said anything about it – and then I stumbled over it quite accidently.
Agree with balanced teaching issue and your definitive explanation of the false sign, sorted it out for me completely.
Thanks Brother
Ken
Hi Joel,
I was just wondering, when you show that Jupiter does not stay in the womb for the entire nine months but leaves the womb and re-enters do you view it from the perspective of Jerusalem? I found your video very insightful by the way.
Yes, from Jerusalem.
Brandon,
Its entirely a normal thing within the form of apocalyptic prophecies to contain a broad overview of some subject. The vision is someone historical but then settles on the last days, with Satan going after Israel. I highly recommend getting a couple good commentaries on Revelation. Osborne’s is a good starting place.
Blessings!
I am new to this and scanned nearly all of the previous blogs. The one thing I heard about the significance of the Constalation Virgo this year is that it will take place on the Feast of Trumpets celebrated by the Jewish people. This is the Jewish year of 777.
Thank you all for your fervent belief in Jesus Christ. Whatever happens in the sky is meant to celebrate HIStory. Blessings to all.
Hazel,
Jupiter leaves what would be considered Virgo’s womb several days before Yom Teruah. Those perpetrating this fraud are not being honest. I had a long conversation with Scott Clarke on the phone and even he admitted that Jupiter leaving Virgo’s womb doesn’t actually coincide with Yom Teruah. Neither is the sun clothing her at this time.
Dear Joel Jew Fool.
……
I know you did not post my prior letter: because you are a FOOL condemned to eternal hell of perdition and this was not unexpected of a Jew DEVIL.
Hi Gregory,
Thank you for your post. Unfortunately, it is not the policy of this web-site to post incoherent hate filled rants. You may find better luck on some white-supremacist, conspiracy theorist, mental illness support group forum.
Blessings,
Joel
I love your insight on this, I want you to check out this link and give me your feedback. Thanks
The sign that will appear in the sky on September 23, 2017 is NOT the GREAT SIGN of Revelation Chapter 12:1.
The content of the video “Apocalypse 12 and 13 REVEALS in the Stars” 1080p (Turn on English Subtitles): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhcoap_H9mQ&feature=youtu.be is really extraordinary, wonderful and surprising, because reveals how the angel sent by God to his servant John was based on the constellations to show us a summary of the War between Good and Evil.
Now we know that this story was captured first in the stars!! And afterwards “in an illustrated book” too: Rev. 12 and Rev. 13.
Although Rev. 12 may seem to the Christians of today a lesson in history, it was not for the early Church of almost 2000 years ago, which suffered severe persecution on the part of Rome after the death of Yahshua. Nor was it for those who suffered and were killed during the papal Inquisition.
Let us begin…
With the video we can see that the tail of the Serpent (Serpens Cauda) is in a large group of stars in the Milky Way and this group of stars REPRESENTS the abyss. We also see that the Sagittarian Constellation SYMBOLIZES a king who is about to ascend from the abyss, according to Rev. 11:7 and 17:8; His name in Hebrew is Abaddon and, in Greek, Apollion, according to Rev. 9:11. And this king refers to John Paul II (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Eb0nMC3LY).
But the most important thing about this video is that the 12-star crown is made up of 2 (two) constellations: that of Coma Berenice (of Berenice’s queen) which has 3 (three) stars and that of Leon (Israel’s crown, The Tribe of Judah), which has 9 stars. Nothing says of the planet Jupiter inside the belly of the constellation Virgo. Nothing is said of the three planets, Mercury, Mars and Venus. Why? Because in both Rev. Chapter 12 and in Rev. Chapter 13 the apostle John saw images based only on CONSTELLATIONS! HE DIDN’T SEE ANY IMAGES based on PLANETS. This means that Rev. 12:5 has no relation to the planet Jupiter but to the constellation of Libra (the Scale means Justice and Judge) as is revealed in the recommended video.
So WHAT does the planet Jupiter that’s circulating so much on the net TRULY represent? SATAN is behind this.
Let’s keep going…
Once a year the sun lights up (dresses) the constellation Virgo. And every 12 years Jupiter passes through Virgo and every 83 years this planet makes a retrograde movement within the Virgo Constellation. And in all the months of September or October, it is common for the sun to appear in Virgo with the moon at its feet.
What does this mean? THAT THE ONLY STRANGE next September 21, Feast of Trumpets, IS THE ALMOST PERFECT ALIGNMENT OF THE PLANETS VENUS, MARS AND MERCURY while the PLANET JUPITER leaves the womb of Virgo. It is a novel fact, never before recorded in all of history. But it turns out that Rev. 12 does not speak of any planet, nor of a planetary alignment. And curiously all this takes place during the hundredth anniversary of the apparitions of the “Woman in the Sun”, the virgin of Fatima who “appeared” in the sky in 1917. Satan is plotting for this year, because this phenomenon of four (4) planets does not appear in Rev. 12.
Also with Google Sky there are those who speculate, using infrared, that NASA is hiding something in space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcNQRy79IrY&vl=en. Many believe that after September 23, the Comet 67P or the planet X – Nibiru will appear under the feet of Virgo as the great red “dragon” of Revelations 12. However, we already learned in the video mentioned at the beginning that God configured The dragon of Rev 12:3 around the Constellation Draco + Constellation Serpens Caput (head of the serpent and its 10 horns) + Constellation Corona Borealis (Crown of the North, with 7 heads and 7 crowns) + Serpens Constellation Tail (Snake Tail) to describe in a perfect way the scarlet dragon of Rev. 12:3: “And there appeared another sign in heaven: behold a great scarlet dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems;”
Something more to reveal …
I was researching about the constellation “Coma Berenices” and I found that means “Berenice hair or Berenice hair”. It is located west of the constellation Leo and near the head of the constellation Virgo.
The star “Diadem” is the second brightest star in the constellation “Coma Berenices” and presumes to be the jewel in the crown of Queen Berenice. This is derived from the Greek διάδημα (dídēma) which can be translated as “band” or “fillet”.
The constellation Coma Berenices, interestingly, was not established as a constellation until the sixteenth century.
At the time of the apostle John, Coma Bernenices was considered as part of the constellation Leo.
The Greek astronomer Ptolemy considered Coma Berenices as an asterism in the constellation of Leo. It represented the plume at the end of the tail of the lion, and it was not until the sixteenth century that Berenice’s hair was promoted to a constellation in its own right.
Asterism is a set of stars that seen from Earth appear to have a special arrangement or alignment in geometric form that are easily rememberable when evoking figures.
And finally …
Let’s not expect another dragon for after 9/23/2017, because If it appears another dragon in the sky would be by Satan to attempt against the Holy Scriptures and deceive many.
The apostle John saw a GREAT red dragon (as detailed in the video above) after seeing a woman dressed in the sun with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. But WE can see the two signs, Revelation 12:1 and Rev. 12:3 using current technology for several months before September 23, 2017 thanks to the video I quoted at the beginning or using the Stellarium program (http://stellarium.org/). With this free open source planetary program for computers we can see a realistic 3D sky.
Conclusion:
The sign that will appear in the sky on September 23, 2017 is NOT the GREAT SIGN of Rev. 12:1 because no PLANETS appear in Rev. 12, nor in Rev. 13.
Satan has CHANGED the constellation of Coma Berenice (of Queen Berenice) which has 3 stars for 3 (three) planets: Mars, Mercury and Venus. So why this CHANGE? So that we will ALSO accept the planet Jupiter as a symbol of the Messiah that is to come. But who is that Messiah? …
The TRUTH is that the two astronomical SIGNS of Revelations Chapter 12 are part of a MEGA IMAGE that covers the most relevant events of all history from Genesis to Revelation, as I said at the beginning of this message: That message was first embodied in the stars!! And afterwards “in an illustrated book”: Rev. Chapters 12 and 13.
Satan can soon use the event of September 23 next to deceive many. He knows how to twist the Holy Scriptures in the eyes of the world. That’s why we say “CAUTION!” because the resurrection of John Paul II is at the gates!!..
Blessings.
Marcelo Cuadras
Let’s review …
The 12-star crown, TODAY, is composed by 2 (two) constellations: that of Coma Berenice (of Queen Berenice) which has 3 (three) stars and that of Leon (Israel’s crown, the Tribe of Judah) which has 9 stars.
But let us remember that in the time of the apostle John, Coma Bernenices was considered part of the constellation Leo.
And what did Satan do? First DIVIDED Leo constellation in 2 (two) parts; for what? To later REPLACE the constellation of Coma Berenice (of the queen Berenice) that has 3 (three) stars FOR 3 (three) planets: Mars, Mercury and Venus. But Satan makes the CHANGE in the minds of many people, not in heaven.
The MALE SON who was born is represented by the constellation of Libra, not by the planet Jupiter. The constellation of the Boyero symbolizes the MALE SON who will rule with IRON ROD TO ALL NATIONS. And the constellation Cepheus refers to the MALE SON when he was RUSHED FOR GOD AND HIS THRONE. Through these three constellations it is revealed to us that the SON MALE IS THE MESSIAH YAHSHUA: “And she gave birth to a son, who will rule with a rod of iron to all the nations, and his son was caught up to God and to his throne . “(Rev. 12:5)
God spoke to the apostle John about constellations, not MIXING constellations with planets.
Satan is the one who MIXES.
The two signs in the sky of Rev. 12 aren”t for September 23, 2017 OR FOR ANY OTHER DATES IN PARTICULAR. Why? Because before our eyes “no constellation has changed place in the whole history of humanity.” THE LOCATION of all the constellations in the time of the apostle John FOLLOWS THE SAME as of today. In two thousand years “they have not changed their position in space”.
Stars do move in the sky and they do it at fantastic speeds! But they are so far away from planet Earth that our eyes do not perceive their movements. Therefore it is said that the constellations “do not change places” or “do not move” for our view.
In both antiquity and today, the human being has always been able to differentiate a star from a planet. But in the times of the apostle John astronomers didn’t know that the stars moved, only perceived the movement of the planets.
“A constellation, in astronomy, is a conventional cluster of stars whose position in the night sky is APPEARING unchanged.” (https://es.)
Something else to finish …
“I stood on the sand of the sea, and I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns; And on his horns ten diadems; And upon their heads a blasphemous name. “(Rev. 13:1)
Here the apostle John saw a beast configured by God around the Constellation Draco + the Constellation Serpens Caput (head of the serpent and its 10 horns) + the Constellation Corona Borealis (North Crown, with 7 heads and 7 crowns) + The constellation Serpens Cauda (serpent’s tail) + the Lince Constellation (similar to a leopard) + the Constellation Big Bear (its feet like the bear’s feet) + the constellation Leo Minor (its mouth as the lion’s).
“And the beast that I saw was like to a leopard, and his feet like a bear’s, and his mouth like a lion’s …” (Rev. 13:2)
I’m really really scared I don’t know what I believe in I’m 13 and I really don’t want to die yet I just want to live a long life.
I just want to know if it’s real or fake because I really don’t want to die I don’t know what i believe in I just want to live a long life
Ahdir,
It is not going to be the end of the world friend. Have you given your life to Jesus and trusted him for your salvation yet?
Hello
I Have a question whether 23 september 2017 will be the end of world because i’m really scared
Hi Jacek,
No, September 23 will absolutely not end the world. Nevertheless, the end (death) for anyone could come tomorrow and we do well to repent, place our faith and give our lives to Jesus and prepare our hearts for the soon coming judgment.
Blessings,
Joel
EVERY Sept Virgo appears EVERY year there is a SIGN. Seems like crying wolf. Im done being a sucker
Joel
You are doing a fantastic job. in refuting the 9/23/17 error. However, I note that even YOU have been duped into wrongly thinking that September 23rd is the Feast of Trumpets. This is an error. September 22nd is the day of Trumpets for 2017. It starts the evening of September 21st. This makes the whole concept and emphasis on September 23 suspect.
There is no Jewish source or others who regularly, like myself, keep all the Feast days that will be keeping Trumpets on September 23rd. Let us remember that, like the Sabbath, holy days beging from sundown to sundown. Sabbath is not from 12 midnight Friday to 12 midnight Saturday, as you know, but rather from Friday, Sundown to Saturday sundown.
This is only more evidence that 9/23/17 lacks any spiritual value and you are right that September 24th, the next day will just be a normal day and life will go on.
R. George
Joel,
Here are all the dates for the Feast days for 2017
These Holy Day dates are for Israel and regions westward to the International Date Line.
This may be Year 6021 After Creation.
Date Sunset Moonset Illum. Sun’s [Moon’s at Sunset] Sun’s Visib Visible?
(Evening) % Azimuth Azimuth Altitude Alt(M) Number
27 Mar 5:55 5:18 0.33 93.34 92.99 -8.25 7.71 -65.91 Not Visible
28 Mar 5:56 6:24 0.50 93.80 90.36 4.84 -5.92 57.48 Not Visible
29 Mar 5:57 7:30 3.46 94.26 87.56 18.1 -19.4 225.4 Visible
Abib 1 is Thursday, 30 Mar 2017 CE
The Passover sacrifice is Wednesday, 12 Apr 2017 CE
The Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on Thursday, 13 Apr 2017 CE
and ends on Wednesday, 19 Apr 2017 CE
The Wave Offering (the First-fruit) is Sunday, 16 Apr 2017 CE
First-fruits (Pentecost) is Sunday, 4 Jun 2017 CE
Date Sunset Moonset Illum. Sun’s [Moon’s at Sunset] Sun’s Visib Visible?
(Evening) % Azimuth Azimuth Altitude Alt(M) Number
20 Sep 5:38 6:01 0.29 91.00 89.75 3.81 -4.84 44.69 Not Visible
21 Sep 5:37 6:36 2.39 90.54 79.75 11.4 -12.6 146.5 Visible
The Day of Trumpets is Friday, 22 Sep 2017 CE
The Day of Atonement is Sunday, 1 Oct 2017 CE
The Feast of Tabernacles (Ingathering) begins on Friday, 6 Oct 2017 CE
and ends on Thursday, 12 Oct 2017 CE
The Last Great Day is Friday, 13 Oct 2017 CE
I appreciated MIGUEL MARCELO CUADRAS comments and echo the importance of doing diligence. While I acknowledge that scripture spoke to and through the original listeners to us, and that with many prophetic scriptures there is a telescopic effect–in other words, some of the events have already taken place, some are in our future–I think reason would dictate that the Revelation passages are reserved for the folks who will actually live through them. That said, the notion of Rev 12 and the child being taken up referring to a past event regarding Jesus, doesn’t make sense. In context, “a great sign appeared in the heavens” indicating that the sign was not observable before. Planets are referred to as “wandering stars”, therefore how is this great sign to APPEAR unless other astrological bodies are considered? Since the September event is extremely unique, it would be foolish of us to simply disregard, since God many times uses symbolism to illustrate. Did not John the Baptist come in the spirit of Elijah? Could not this sign in the heavens be in the spirit of the Rev 12 passage? I know we have to be careful here, but if you take what we know (Leo plus 3 planets, Jupiter gestating in Virgo, a possible winged planet emerging), you don’t have to practice cognitive dissonance to see that this interpretation is still valid. I’m not too hung up on the perfect alignment with feast days for two reasons: 1. No where in Rev does it indicate that the great sign has to fall on a feast day, and 2. Since the feast days are counted by the sighting of the new moon, it could shift slightly (maybe even because of the coming perterbance).
Let me make this absolutely clear: There are other end times indicators that must be in place before the coming of the Lord, so unless the temple is built, sacrifices are offered, etc., this is not an end of days scenario. 3 1/2 years from now, we may look back and see that this event heralded the beginning of the tribulation period, who knows? What we can rejoice in is that more and more people are keeping a diligent watch, which is what we are supposed to be doing. Personally, I look to the first four chapters of Rev (the letters to the seven churches) to ensure I am doing the things that Jesus commends, and steer clear of those that he condemns–I suggest we all do the same.
To reiterate, if the constellations are already there, and “Once a year the sun lights up (dresses) the constellation Virgo. And every 12 years Jupiter passes through Virgo and every 83 years this planet makes a retrograde movement within the Virgo Constellation. And in all the months of September or October, it is common for the sun to appear in Virgo with the moon at its feet”, then what NEW and GREAT sign are we looking for? Other than some unforeseen tearing of the fabric of the universe (which will happen too, but later), the September event is the most likely candidate.
Where did you find out that this has already taken place in the 1st Century?
The Bible tell us this was already fulfilled. Jesus has already been born. In fact, this was clearly the sign that the Magi observed and followed to find Jesus the Messiah. Have you seen the film, the Star of Bethlehem? It is very helpful.
I didn’t read all the comments, but let me just say my two cents. God told Abraham and Lot about things that were coming, Noah, David, Samuel, Solomon, his prophets, his apostles, and John the Revelator and Paul who was considered a 13th apostle, 14th if you count Matthias and Judas. The verses that are being placed together based on the wording and usages and overall theme seem to suggest a very good possibility that this time is at the very least very extremely significant. I am a believer who is getting very convinced by how things seem to be falling into place. If one reads the verse in Daniel about knowledge increasing with Psalm 16 and Isaiah 66 and so many Revelation and new testament verses, it’s like the puzzle pieces are falling into place.
And a lot of what i am seeing being reported here is not what’s on the videos I have watched. The ones I have seen, the sun is at the woman’s head over her shoulder, just as a photographer would place a light for a picture, the moon under her feet, Leo with 9 stars plus Mars, Mercury, and Venus as wandering stars above her head as the diadem, Jupiter having been in retrograde completely in the box of Virgo’s womb, and another snakey constellation near Virgo’s feet. Now if Nibiru or Planet X really is something real, it could really be in play, and I have heard before that how they found Pluto, not even c9nsidered a planet anymore, was because of the effects in Uranus and Neptune, they thought something else could be out there. Some people are saying it’s a long elliptical that’s on a 33 degree plane, and it could be that that’s what the Freemasons 33 degree came from. They worship the beast, Lucifer, the angel of light. Now i haven’t watched your video above yet because i am with family, but i will later and see what you have to say.
Sorry just this, i am not gonna hide my name, it’s not what i posted above, perfect love casts out fear.
Hello
Name is Mark and am 16 years old write to you mr. Richardson because i have to know and i am very very scared on september 23 2017 will be the end of the world ?
Hi Marek,
No, it will not be the end of the world.
Hello
Mr.Richardson you are sure to not end of the world because a i am very very scared
Marek,
First of all, if you are a Christian, you have nothing to fear. Are you a Christian? Have you given your life to Jesus Christ? Have you trusted him and his atoning work on the cross for the forgiveness of sins?
Second, the world will not end, and there will be no rapture this September.
Joel & M. FELTNER,
Hey, just watched The Star of Bethlehem documentary–that was great! Thanks for suggesting. I really enjoyed Fred Larson’s methodical approach (leave it to an attorney, right?).Interesting that in the same way God revealed to Fred the truth of the Star of Bethlehem and the events surrounding the signs in the heavens, is the same way that God revealed to Scott Clark the upcoming September sign. 🙂
There were some great insights from the video, however, Fred’s references to Rev 12 are problematic. He does validate that planets are referred to as “wandering stars” and the Maggi interpreted them as such. The fact that Jupiter (king planet) retrograded around Regulus (king star and part of the Leo constellation–Lion of Judah) nine months before the Star of Bethlehem appeared was amazing! However, in the video Fred references Rev 12, the virgin being Mary, the son Jesus, the Dragon being Herod, and showed the constellation Virgo clothed with the sun and the moon at her feet and exclaimed: “That’s what John saw!” In other words, stating that John was witnessing past events. But as I’ll explain further below, John could not have been viewing past events.
Now, without getting too deep into the weeds, anyone who studies scripture knows that there are many types that God has written in human history, that what has happened before has significance for what happened later or what will happen in the future. For example, the Law was a precursor to Grace–when the Law was given, 3,000 were cut down with the sword because they did not side with God; but on the day of Pentecost, 3,000 lives were saved when their hearts were circumcised/cut by the sword of the Holy Spirit. Scripture says that just as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the end times, Jesus is the second Adam etc.–there are countless examples.
Sure, you can pull a few things from Rev 12 and say that they applied to Jesus, Mary, and Herod, BUT there are significant details included in the Rev 12 passage that did not occur in the time of Jesus. What about the dragon’s tail sweeping a third of the stars down, which happens BEFORE the birth (plus the passage itself identifies the dragon as Satan, not Herod)? What about AFTER the child is caught up, the virgin fled to the wilderness for three and a half years–which directly connects it to the tribulation period (Mary fled to Egypt BEFORE Jesus ascended, and the time in Egypt ranges from weeks to a few years)?
What about AFTER the child is caught up, a war broke out in heaven and Satan was cast down to the earth to slaughter those who hold to the TESTIMONY of JESUS? You could say that Satan is already here, has already been cast down, but Revelation makes a distinction; he is the accuser of the brethren now, but: Rev 12:10 “For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.” In other words, Satan had access to God’s throne in heaven to accuse us, and after the war with Michael, he is thrown down to earth and no longer has access to the third heaven. To be fair, you could argue that at the crucifixion, Jesus crushed the head of the snake (Satan), I could see a war breaking out, and you could claim that the persecution of Christians during the Roman times was Satan’s backlash–but this doesn’t connect all of the pieces of the Rev passage because right after you have the emergence of the beast, the prophet of the beast, mark of the beast, etc., and all of this happens while the woman is in the wilderness, kept safe from Satan’s wrath (no telescoping effect).
The Book of Revelation, by nature, is a foretelling of future events: Rev 1:1 “The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.” Rev 1:19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is NOW and what will take place LATER.” Rev 4:1 “After this (the 7 letters to the 7 churches) I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place AFTER this.”
I can’t find any reference in Revelation to PAST events–can you? So why wrench Rev 12 out of context? The male child was “snatched up”–harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force, whereas Jesus was “taken up”–epairó: to lift up, rise up. (Strongs) Interestingly enough, harpázō is the same Greek word used in the rapture-type passages (Note: I am not saying that the rapture will happen in September as some believe–if it happens, great, if not, I’m fully prepared–as anyone can be, I guess–to die for my faith. I’m just acknowledging that the same Greek word is used).
If you’re getting hung up on “a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”, I can see room to interpret it in this way: Fred referenced Gen 49:10 “The scepter WILL NOT DEPART from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, UNTIL he to whom it belongs shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his.” Let’s look at this verse in light of Rev 2:26-28 “To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give that one the morning star.” This was in reference to the obedient servants of the Church of Ephesus in the 7 letters to the churches. So the way I see it is that when Jesus comes back and subdues the nations (with the help of those who have been translated), he will delegate his authority during the millennial period to the faithful. The wording is exactly the same in BOTH Revelation passages: “will rule (the nations) with an iron scepter”–so let’s let scripture define itself, especially when the references are in the same book.
To recap: the Maggi saw a great sign in heaven, which led them on a journey to find Jesus–and this great sign appeared when the planets aligned/behaved in a strange, very uncommon, way.
Joel, my friend, I ask you again: What great sign, “suddenly” appearing in heaven are we supposed to be looking for? If you like, feel free to email me directly for “iron sharpening iron” session before you make your next follow-up video! lol Hey, if I’m wrong, I’m open to feedback–I don’t have all the answers–I’m just one beggar showing another beggar where they’re handing out the bread.
Oceans of blessings, wisdom, and insight to you Joel.
And just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water… lol
Wendell,
Virgo is Israel, but in the most specific sense, Mary was the chosen one from among Israel who actually gave birth. So I understand what Fred Larson is saying. It need not necessarily be a rigid one or the other. I understand that you truly hope something great is going to happen this September, but as you have now seen, Scotty Clarke has not only exaggerated the “great sign,” but has also mislabeled certain stars as having significance this year, he has also applied the meaning of the stars wrongly to the wrong celestial bodies, and has even misinterpreted the meaning of Jupiter as pointing to us and not Jesus, etc. etc. The bottom line is rather than repenting for misleading people a few years ago, Scotty has simply dug in his heals and will now mislead far far more people. I’m truly sad that folks are being duped by this. Many will be greatly disappointed this September. I’ve at least done my part to extend my warning.
Blessings,
Joel
Joel,
Hey, I just ordered Reversing Hermon, and Mystery of the Mazzaroth (as well as your new book Mystery Babylon: Unlocking the Bible’s Greatest Prophetic Mystery) because more information is always better. I’m a firm believer that we desperately need to be intellectually honest–examine all sides of an argument–and in that way, the lies fall away and the truth rises to the surface. I’ve found that this happens a lot when studying scripture–God brings to light a deeper understanding of a verse that challenges our traditional thinking, and it may force us to go back and take a second look at other related verses. But cast in the light of the new understanding, the other verses shed a new light, and a greater, more holistic understanding of our Father and his immeasurable love is gained. As the apostle Paul says, we have renewed our minds, and have been transformed. I’m much more concerned with the truth than just being right. Swallowing your pride is a healthy meal! 🙂
Please don’t misunderstand me–I’m not “hoping” that something will happen in September. Like you, several years ago I found out that Scotty was claiming to have found some sort of alignment of the stars that coincided with the Rev 12 prophecy. So in the “CSI Investigation” of Rev 12, what is the crime scene? I think if we look at the verses like a map, a breadcrumb trail that builds one step on another, it is easier to understand (for me at least! lol).
To begin our investigation we have to start with Rev 11. It is evident that there is a clean break in the timeline between Rev 11 and 12. So when do the events of Rev 12 begin? It’s anybody’s guess. Our next clue is that there is a GREAT sign in heaven–something happens that has not happened before–and the sum of the to-be-mentioned clues comprise the great sign.
Clue #1: Where to look? The Woman. Since there is only one female in the 12 constellations, this is a no-brainer.
Clue #2: Clothed with the sun. I found an interesting article (http://www.sigler.org/eby/heavens5.html) that points out: “In the Greek there are two words used for CLOTHED, one is ENDUO and the other is PERIBALLO. In this particular case the word PERIBALLO, is used, and realizing that every word is important in respect to where and how it is used by the Spirit of God in the scriptures, we know that PERIBALLO is distinctly illuminative. ENDUO means to GO INTO CLOTHING which infers that the clothing is of a certain size and specification into which a person must fit. In other words, a person up to a particular size could fit into a certain garment, but over that size it would be impossible to get into it. On the other hand, PERIBALLO means to CAST AROUND ABOUT which would infer some sort of a garment that can be put on and cast around a person and made to fit the person rather than the person fit the garment. “For instance, Lk. 24:49 speaks about ‘being ENDUED (endue–clothed) with power from on high’ referring to the infilling of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Here the word used means to be CLOTHED with power in the sense of GOING INTO CLOTHING, or having the garment of a particular size into which the person must fit… On the other hand, the word PERIBALLO used of the sun-clothed woman infers that this full-grown woman has a covering of the sun that is CAST ABOUT her in such a manner that the garment fits her rather than her trying to fit into the garment.”
Some have said that the sun must be in Virgo to be able to “clothe” her, but I think we can see here, with the use of PERIBALLO, that the sun is “cast about” her really describes what we should be looking for (and what we can be seen in September).
Clue #3: The moon at her feet. The sun crossing Virgo gives us a season, the moon crossing Virgo gives us a time of that season. Does it have to be a new moon? It doesn’t say, but it does have to be present when the other clues are present.
Clue #4: The crown of twelve stars. The Greek word used here is stéphanos, and is used of a plaited wreath (“crown”), like the one made of thorns placed on the head of Christ at His trial. So what crown of 12 stars are we looking for? Joel, you mentioned the Virgo cluster may be a possibility as well as Coma Berenices. Now, not having read yet Heiser’s interpretation, when I google-search the Virgo Cluster (http://messier.seds.org/more/virgo.html), to be honest, from this and other searched pages, I can’t find anywhere that easily distinguishes a crown of 12 stars. Seems like the cluster could be sliced & diced however you interpret it, but the question remains, does God expect everyone to have a Phd in Astrophysics to be able to figure this out? Would the average Joe be able to look up into the sky and say “Hey, there it is, 12 stars above Virgo.”? With Coma Berenices, although widely accepted and identified as a crown of 12 stars, when I look at a star map, Coma Berenices is NOT crowning Virgo–it’s on the side of her “head”. There are other crowns identified in the heavens, such as Corona Borealis that DOES appear above Virgo (https://theheavensdeclare.net/stones-of-a-crown/), unfortunately this crown has twelve stars plus “one in the middle” which is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, in my opinion.
Clue #5: On her head. I think this is a significant clue. Check out the Greek Interlinear (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/12-1.htm) and you’ll find that the Greek word for “on” or “upon” is epi: on, to, against, on the basis of, or at. Not on the side of (as with Coma Berenices) or reaching for (as with Corona Borealis). Also, let’s get back to the sign “appearing” which is of utmost importance. To be fair, can we say that the Woman “appeared”? No, no more than the crowns mentioned appeared–they’ve always been there. The Greek word used is horaó: I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware. Other English translations say “A great sign was seen in heaven.” So where is the emphasis? Could it be that the Woman, the Sun, the Moon, the Crown, and the Male Child are all semi-regular occurrences (and maybe even the Dragon), but when the Dragon appears and sweeps a third of the stars out of the sky, that’s the trifecta of the Great Sign? It just may be and we don’t need to concern ourselves until that happens.
Joel, who says you can’t steal stars from Leo? The average Joe is going to look up and say “Hey, I thought Leo was above Virgo, but now I see 12 stars–guess it’s a royal crown!” And then he’ might say “Holy Crap! A third of the stars are coming down!” lol
Clue #6: She was pregnant. Jupiter in retrograde totally fits here.
Clue #7: She cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. “Just breathe honey!” 🙂 A reasonable connection could be made, I think, to the references Jesus makes to the end times being like “birth pains”. Gill Broussard has a number of great reference documents (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bxo1G-IXQh2Yem1XVzdRZ25jajA), one of which shows how the number of earthquakes this last decade has been GREATLY increasing.
Clue #8: Another sign appears/is seen/perceived/discerned. Scripture makes a point of indicating that this is something new; a new element is thrown into the mix. Especially when the Greek word idou is used meaning “Behold!” (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/12-3.htm).
Clue #9: Behold, a dragon, red and great. Of the Nibiru/Planet X material I have reviewed, Gill Broussard’s Planet 7X research seems the most grounded in historical events. It is REALLY tedious to sift “urban legend” from fact-based research from “the sky is falling” mentalities. Is there a perterbance? Yes. Is NASA covering something up? Yes. Is it heading in our direction? If you held a gun to my head I’d have to say yes. Will it be here soon? Gill gave a prediction of 2016, but did provide a weighted range–all the way out to 2022ish. Are the perterbance occurrences documented in historical records? YES, if you know what to look for. Is this about the time these occurrences cycle back around. Unfortunately, yes. Is Google Sky hiding some celestial body that appears to be waiting for the birth of the male child? YES.
Clue #10: Its tail flung a third of the stars to the earth. Yikes! This is when I want to hang with the Doomsday Preppers! Seriously though, Revelation is God’s forewarning to us, his beloved children, so that we can prepare ourselves in every way. I don’t judge people for Emergency Preparedness, that’s just being wise. Joel, I agree that it’s sad so many believers have cried wolf over the ages–and yes, teachers are held to a higher standard of accountability. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that programs like Star Gazer are available in our time for the average person to use in their research. The consequences of this particular prophecy are too disastrous not to give grave consideration.
Clue #11: “The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.” It seems apparent from the timeline in scripture that the appearance of the dragon, and its tail sweeping the stars down to earth occurs before the birth of the male child. Jupiter leaves the “womb” of Virgo sometime in early September. I think it’s reasonable to assume (without making an ass out of u and me–see Walter Matthau, Bad News Bears, lol) that if we don’t see a bunch of meteors pelting the planet between now and then, we’re good! HOWEVER, if something does happen, we’ll be having a whole ‘nother discussion on how to INTERPRET the sign (i.e., who does the Woman & male child represent, etc.).
Clue #12: Final Jeopardy. We have no control over the child getting snatched up, it just happens. Who this happens to is another question. Since significant distinction is made between the Greek words used to describe Jesus’ “rising up” and the word used in rapture references to “snatch up forcefully”, although I consider myself to be a post-trib rapturist, we have to give it proper weight. It’s not beyond possibility that because the apostle Paul makes a distinction that the dead in Christ will rise first, maybe this will be their translation experience, and ours will be a more telescoping effect that will happen later when Jesus returns–it’s a stretch, but who knows? What we do know is that the Woman flees. She is given an opportunity to get to a safe place. Will this be our opportunity?
I’m going to stop here. I didn’t intend for this to be so verbose, however, it helps to map it all out on “paper”. I agree that many people may be disappointed, putting too much weight on escape, rather than trusting that God’s promise is to be WITH YOU DURING the trial, and helping you safely through it. “No testing has seised you except what is common to man, and God is faithful. He will not let you be tested beyond what you can bear. But when you are tested, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.” What a promise to those who are faithful unto torture and death! In my opinion, you’re much better off psychologically if you just accept the fact that if you are a Christian and find yourself living during the end times, you’re going to be a martyr.
One other thing, when researching both sides of the argument, I found this site: http://www.vofoundation.org/blog/biblical-signs-sky-september-23-2017/. It’s The Catholic Astronomer Vatican Observatory blog. They address the Rev 12 prophecy and the 9/23/2017 date to quell anyone’s concerns with pointing out that this is not a unique experience. However, when I clicked on an enlargement of each one of their photo examples, none of them come as close to representing Rev 12 as the date in question. Either the planets, or the sun weren’t in the right places, Also, I wouldn’t be too hard on Scotty–for example, I think because we are God’s children, and the faithful will receive the iron scepter, there is room to interpret Jupiter differently. We can’t look at this in a vacuum either. With all the Israel anniversaries and other prophecies aligning, it just adds more weight to consider this coming event with sober judgement.
Wendell,
What makes you sure that the thing you think is virgo’s head is her head and not her arm? I could ask about a dozen similar questions to show that you are making numerous assumptions that cannot be proven open way or the other. I have been very kind to Scott, but in all fairness, there is a small multitude of those who believe we are now in the tribulation specifically because Scott led them to believe such. This requires repentance, not going back to the drawing board. Scott began his journey onto this “revelation” specifically because Jupiter is the “king planet” but now he is casting us as the king. I find this to be beyond credulous and comes across to me as making it up as you go along. I only wish that you would be as skeptical and Berean-like in your efforts as you seem to be in seemingly trying to convince yourself that this is indeed something to be soberly considered. Regardless in three months, this whole matter will be behind us. As I’ve said, I tried to caution everyone.
Blessings,
Joel
Hey Joel,
Just wanted to pop in and say what a great video this was. This “sign” like many others that you touched on lacks any spiritual/scriptural foundations. Dr. Danny Faulkner from Answers in Genesis (AIG) also agrees with conclusion as do I and many others. The ones who are proposing that this is a sign because it is “rare” or because of this that and the other I believe take scripture and stretch it to their own imagination.
I did have a question. Regarding the eclipse that will be taking place in August. A couple articles from mainly just two news sources has given it any traction. Basically it sates that Christians believe that this eclipse will mark the “end” and bring about the apocalypse. But in the article it gives no mention of who these people are. My guess is a certain sect of Christians are purporting this (aka the ones that leap on the bandwagon with every new end times craze). Do you see any validity in this?
Probably just random folks on the internet. Fear not. : )
Hi Joel,
You make some very good points.
Here is a counterpoint you overlook though…
An event happening every 7000 years is a ‘great wonder in the heavens’. An event every 12 years is not a great wonder in the heavens. I would argue that the quadriple occurence of the moon, the sun, jupiter in the womb, and the crown of wandering planets is a GREAT WONDER IN THE HEAVENS.
Unless people were an astronomers living 2000 years ago, there is no way people can be certain what the crown of stars refers to.
Where the rare event may fall over though is the red dragon (hyrda). I don’t understand wherethe crowns (Stars) are for the dragon! If these are just normal stars it means the red dragon event is not rare. Importantly the Red Dragon event is also said to be a ‘great wonder in the heavens’. I need both the red dragon event and the virgin birth event for the prophecy to stake up.
I don’t see this, so the jury is out for mine.
You know Joel it’s just my opinion, but one you touched on. It seems to me that because we Christians are so quick to claim a sign these days; and because we see the anti-Christ on every corner. Not only are we losing our credibility in the face of this world, and not only are we causing the worlds societies to not take us seriously anymore. We have played right into Satan’s hands, as we are quickly being labelled the crazies, the frauds and the extremist troublemaker in the world.
It seems to me that because of such YouTube prophets and holy Joe’s (not all are bad thankfully), we are setting ourselves up for our own fall and persecution in the West. When the day come when the world will agree to a unified religion; nobody is going to take the exclusivity of Yeshua seriously because of our then fractured reputation.
I can fully see why the Lord is about to hand the torch of truth in the Gospel back to Israel. It saddens and frustrates me greatly.
Joel, I have read over your rebuttals to those who have asked you questions that seem to be of a deep heart felt request for knowledge about the Marriage of The Lamb and the church, The anti christ, The tribulation, the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the mellinum. Your answers on several of them are a bit upsetting and condensending to the inquirer a d this bothers me. I understand that anyone who makes or rather states Biblical prophecy event dates do not and are not in it to spread the word Of God and Story of Christ they are usually doing it for material gain by selling book, dvds, movies, and the like. I do not know enough about you to say that you do this but beating someone down by calling their questions un Christian is just acting like a jackass. Chastise me if you will but you never come at a new born Christian with torrents and withering abuse just because their knowledge isn’t equal to yours. They are mothers milk Christians not meat and potatos Christians and, in my humble opinion, what your doing is not only non Christian but just wrong. As I said I do not know you my observations are made through your answers and statements to the questions others propose to you. I will not apologize for calling you a jackass because any man of God doesn’t do that. As with others this is what God has placed on my heart to say and I have never had a problem speaking my mind or heart. Being a law enforcement officer for twenty five years and a Captian in the United States Army I have seen suffering, sadness, abuse, and evil in many different forms and it is all over this world. God warns us about having a reprobate mind giving ourselves over to the world being Of it instead of living in it as He instructs us to do. So maybe lighten up a little and use your platform to help those seeking knowledge to find the. correct answers in scripture instead of slapping them in the face about how ignorant they are or rather how much mor ignorant they are than you. Just one mans opinion.
Hey Joel
If you are so sure about the September 23 sign is not a sign mentioned in the Revelation then can you tell me when it will be there another sign in the constillation or heaven like the sign which is going to happen in September 23 check 6000 years back in the Stellerium or 6000 years forward. Which generation was able to see the constillation like this generation and know whats happening in the constillation using a Software. You’ll not get a sign like this and the constillation are on a fixed path they don’t simply change like the weather. It may not be the rapture but I’m sure a message will be given to the world on that day about the second coming of Jesus Christ is near cause Jesus said Elijah will come again which simply means a messanger like John The Baptist. Before the son of man comes to the Earth.
Thanks Joel
The sign happens every 11 or 12 years. Don’t be deceived.
Brown,
Thank you for your comments. As a general rule, I have found over the years that whenever I address some particular issue, if folks agree with me, they tend to express appreciation to me for approaching it in a humble manner. If they disagree however, they tend to see my demeanor as condescending, arrogant, and rude. Because you simply criticized me without specify which comments I made that upset you, I cannot respond to them specifically. Admittedly, I am most often very short here, as I simply do not have the time to respond to every comment made. I do assume however, that a short answer is better than none at all. So please do not mistake my brevity for being rude. I make a very genuine effort to respond to as many comments as I can in a way that is helpful. Oftentimes I am simply unable to do so.
On the other hand, and despite being called names or insulted on nearly every issue I address, I do make every effort to never respond in kind, to not act rudely, name-call, or use abusive language etc. I hate it when others do this, and strive to always avoid this myself. I would encourage you to read through the Youtube comments on this particular video and ask yourself how “Christ-like” many of the commenters so eagerly awaiting His return really are. Unfortunately, using insults and name-calling is exactly what you’ve done in your own frustration toward me. I pray that in the future you will make an effort before the Lord to remove the log from your own eye before you rebuke a fellow brother for the speck in his. I hope my comments here are helpful.
Many Blessings,
Joel
I am a 14 year old boy who is scared of s september, i am saved. But I want to live a full life, is there any possibility that Jesus will come next generation? Thanks
greetings joel
having just stumbled across this site i was intrigued by some of the comments and your answers i admire how you patiently answer most. i will say i havnt watched your video here and am not what you would call a christian but studied the bible many years ago. that said i am not particularly knowledgeable on the bible itself so please dont take this as an argument for truth as i would just like your opinion on a few things. 1, someone on here mentioned there are trumpet sounds that accompany this sign (or non sign) what is your opinion on the trumpet sounds being heard around the world (including me)?. 2. what is your opinion of what the “great lie” that the devil misleads the world and many of the “chosen” ones is?. a few comments got me thinking as well on here, first regarding the red dragon sign, was just thinking that wouldnt it be funny if nasa found their planet 9 in September. lol, second is it seems allot of people really need to pick apart every word and every possible meaning of it when it seems to me the bible pretty clearly states its children that understand the word best and wise men get lost in it, seems like people try and pour it into a mold and design it into a solid form that they can relate to when i think it says its “the living word”,. third is i personaly dont think anyone gets out of this by being zapped up into heaven, i think the rapture is a worldwide spiritual awakening so that everyone will know the choice they are making when the rubber meets the road so to speak and the time comes to choose the mark or die as has been spoken of. and many that think they are chosen and protected will choose their own lives over christ as has been told, after all in the end how many is it that actually get out of this with their souls intact?, 144000 x 9?, so i would love your opinion on my few questions if you feel so compelled.
To all, semantics, when or how things will occur will be according to God’s timing, purpose and will. He is the Creator, we are His created. If you have not yet come to repentancee, given your life to Jesus, our Saviour by God’s gracd. I tell you, do so while there is still time for the hour of His coming we do not know. There is no time for judgement, criticisism or things that appear to border on sorcery. Put these things aside and put on love, God’s love that will overcome all fear of thd unkown. May God forgive our doubts, let us put on faith in God, He knows the plans He has for us. Stand fast in hope, let love abound and encourage one another always. May God be with us all. Blessings William
Don’t wait and see what is going to happen. Return to God. Give your life to Jesus while there is still time, the Kingdom of God has come near you. Do not fear the unknown, God is Spirit worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, dwell in His Word and focus on Christ in you, the hope of glory that you may be found worthy to recieve His promise. God’s love drives out all fear. Again John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.”. These words Jesus spoke to bring hope to the lost – there is a future of life and life everlasting in the presence of a loving God. Again I say have no fear in what is to come, GOD IS WITH US. Much blessings William
I personally do believe very strongly that Jesus will come in your lifetime.
Scott,
Thanks for your e-mail. First of all, may I ask why you are not a Christian? What exactly are you waiting for? Second, there are no “trumpet sounds” accompanying this “sign. The alleged trumpets sounds of which there are many videos on Youtube concerning, is another scam and has been thoroughly debunked. Some of the videos have been shown to actually use audio from other videos. Third, the “great delusion” is the dynamic of the world being deceived by the Antichrist, the coming dictator. Fourth, there indeed will be a rapture, a scathing up of the saints, as the Scriptures are very clear on this matter. The timing of said rapture however is up for debate. I hope this has helped. If you are ready to make a commitment to Jesus so as to be ready for the losing judgment of all mankind, then please let me know. I would be happy to pray with you and help you get connected to a good body of believes who can help you grow in the knowledge of God.
Blessings,
Joel
Thanks Joel, for this thorough and careful investigation. I will be linking it in my own commentary.
I don’t know if you are aware, but since you posted this video, new claims have cropped up to defend the uniqueness of this year’s Jupiter-in-Virgo conjunction. As of two months ago, there is now an expectation of a rogue heavenly body entering the picture to play the role of the “red dragon” who tries to devour the “child” (Rev.12:3-4).
To account for the “tail sweeping stars to the earth”, this scenario taps into the “Nabiru” (aka “Planet X”) myth, and by extension implies that other Revelation prophecies describing celestial objects hitting earth are about to occur. Like the Nabiru fans, these folk accuse NASA and Google of trying to hide the existence of this intruding heavenly body that looks like a “red dragon”.
Typical example: http://you-tube.one/watch/QDdtLWh0ci11Y1hF/red-dragon-of-revelation-12-google-sky-coverup-exposed-see-it-for-yourself.html
The troubling part is not its plausibility for Sept.23 – as the “dragon sign” it has no meaning without the discredited “woman sign”. It’s that the eerie-looking image this guy claimed to capture is presented with seeming goodwill, including an invitation to readers to verify it for themselves – but doing that requires technical knowledge of how to use Google Skyview.
I don’t want to burden you with a new investigation. But if you have already heard about this new twist, I will be interested in your comments.
Lunacy meets desperation. What is sad is that after having deluded their listeners, after their prophecies (I never made a prediction! I merely strongly inferred for the past three years that something is going to happen!) utterly fail in September, they will simply reformulate and try again.
Hello And Help
Please i really to know i am very very scared and afraid
I can’t eat and sleep
Will be end of the world in 23 september 2017 ?
Will Jesus return on earth in 23 september 2017 ?
I don’t die !!!!!! Please answer me
This is a false sign ?
I have already answered you multiple times. September 23 will not be the end of the world. Now stop repeatedly posting this same question.
Are we living in the end times, I say yes! Should we worry about it I say no! I do not believe anything will happen September 23! Jesus said we will not know the time day or place! We just need to keep living the way Jesus wants us to live! Jesus will call us Home when He is ready to call us Home! Instead of looking at the bad and negatively in this world! Let us focus on the good and positive things in this world! Enjoy the many blessings God has given us! Live for this moment right now, that is today! Don’t worry about tomorrow for it has not happened yet!
Joel, I appreciate your gentle spirit in discussing the Revelation 12 sign of the virgin, the Child, and the dragon, as well as the facts you give. How important that we know what is truth, and “true facts” of God’s planetary movements (though a fact, to be a fact, must be true!). I’ve recently been challenged by a family member to consider the September 23, 2017 rapture claims, and not to be condemnatory until I know the facts.
For a deep inquiry into the facts of the rapture, I fervently encourage folks to Google the free pdf publication, “The Approaching Advent of Christ by Alexander Reese.” Before Israel was even declared a nation, Alexander Reese wrote this definitive work, filled with deep concern over what he termed a “new doctrine” replacing the facts of the timing of the Biblical rapture. Though some might think him ponderous in his voluminous citing of many Biblical scholars, the reader will be well rewarded in gaining a wealth of Scriptural insights into God’s eschatology. Reese was alarmed by the works of Darby, Gaebelein, Kelly, and some of Scofield’s Bible notes, etc., that were pushing this “new doctrine” of a pre-trib rapture. After clearly, and courteously, stating the case in chapter I, of pre-trib rapture teachings, he has an amazing chapter II, dealing with the resurrection of the Old Testament saints. Everyone agrees, states Reese, that the First Resurrection occurs when Messiah returns, and that such an event encompasses the Old Testament saints. He makes a fine, solid Scriptural case, beginning with the Old Testament, that such a resurrection is both literal, and occurring after the time of the great trouble spoken of in Daniel.
One clarification from Reese I think is helpful: one can hold to the Biblical teaching of the rapture occurring after the tribulation (post-trib position) and still be historically, theologically, PRE-Millennial! That is, both pre-tribbers and post-tribbers are pre-millennialist, in that Christ will surely come BEFORE the Millennium, defeat His enemies, then set up His earthly Millennial reign. Now in my 70’s, for most of my life I had been thinking that “pre-millennial” automatically meant “pre-trib.” One needs to keep this distinctive understanding of true pre-millennialism when examining “The Approaching Advent of Christ,” by Alexander Reese.
Hopefully the sign of the woman on 9/23/2017 will result in the rapture but it looks unlikely. Apostle John and Paul agree when the rapture takes place. At the seventh and last trump, or trumpet.
Revelation 10:7 ESV
[7] but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.
The mystery of God is Christ in you the hope of glory, Col 1:27. If further proof is required, study the three woes in the book of Revelation which are linked to the last three Trumpets.
Revelation 8:13 KJV
[13] And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
Revelation 9:11-12 KJVS
[11] And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [12] One woe is past; and , behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Revelation 11:13-14 KJVS
[13] And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. [14] The second woe is past; and , behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Revelation 12:12 KJVS
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
The third woe that is linked to the seventh trumpet, Re 8:13, takes place seven verses later than the birth of the man child in the 12th chapter of Revelation. It is hard to believe that 3 1/2 years transpires between verse 12:5 and 12:12, because Re 11:14 states the second woe is past; and , behold, the third woe cometh quickly. There is a continuation of a theme, the three woes, that unfolds in a linear fashion in the 8th, 9th, 11th and 12th chapters. This runs counter to the duel chronology parenthetical theory, if you will, that many seem to adhere to.
Joel,
Are you intentionally deceiving your audience? You keep saying this sign happens every 11-12 years? I downloaded stellarium and have spent 6 hours slowly going back in time. I have reached year 1505 so far and you are decieving.
The sign is composed of
1. 12 stars above her head
2. Clothes in sun
3. Moon at feet
4. Jupiter retrogrades at its most perfect point in her womb.
This only happens on sep 23, 2017
Please download software christians. This complete sign does not happen every 12 years. Joel is being dishonest. I hope you clarify to your audience the truth,
The fact that Jupiter retrogrades on some portion of Virgo every 11-12 years is not the great sign. He is making it out to sound as if it is. I am going to go back in time as far as I can with stellarium as possible.
Matthew,
With all due respect, you obviously have not taken the time to watch my video. If you had, you would see that the portion of the alleged “sign” that is pointed to as the crown is simply not valid. Once one exposes the false claim that Leo is somehow absorbed into Virgo for only a moment in order to manufacture a sign, then you may observe that Jupiter enters Virgo along with the sun and moon every 11-12 years. Very simple.
Roughly two months now until this false sign is proven to be just that, a manufactured sign.
Blessings,
Joel
Joel,
When you refer to “Jesus coming,” are you referring to the Rapture or the second coming? Because there is the Rapture, and after there is Jesus’ second coming. I just want to make the clarification; that when you say “Jesus coming” you are not referring to Jesus’ second coming, but rather the Rapture.
God bless,
T
T Hart,
When I say Jesus coming, I am referring to Jesus coming. There is only one that we await, the Blessed Hope.
I know that the rapture is what we await and it is our Blessed Hope.
But there is also the second coming of Jesus after the church is caught up to be with Him.
Do you believe that the rapture and the second coming are the same?
Can you show me a single verse anywhere in the Bible which shows that he return of Jesus and our being caught up to meet Him are two separate events?
I suggest you do more research into the sign. You’ve got this wrong. The end begins in 60 days. Rend your heart and repent for doubting something in the Bible
Hi Paul,
I do hope you will likewise come back to apologize on September 24. Jesus is indeed coming back soon to judge the living and the dead. Just not this soon.
Blessings,
Joel
I’m taking my chances on believing this is a great event that god is telling to to watch out for, if you people scoff and think these events will have background music and be broadcast like advertisements you are wrong, this is real, god talk to me a lot and he confirms this
To test such and find them to be false is not to scoff. To act as a Berean and critically examine prophecy is a commandment.
I appreciate you taking the time to address this.
Wow, a lot of believers are deceived indeed. It’s obvious many don’t ACTUALLY even read your bibles.
Let’s take a look at the Revelation 12 sign, apparently happening on September 23, 2017.
Keep in mind, that at the time of this post, The Revelation 12 sign is supposed to happen 2 months from now.
Clearly, this doesn’t make any sense and is deception at its best and blasphemy at its worst.
Given that Revelation 12 will occur in 2 months from now, consider the ministry of the two witnesses in Revelation 11.
Their ministry is supposed to last 3.5 years. It hasn’t even begun yet. Most scholars agree that Revelation is chronological.
How does this fit?
And also, the Revelation 6 sign that the heavens will be moved out of place. This has to fit within the next 2 months, which is highly doubtful.
So, we have a problem with either the timing and “star alignment” = which is astrology and is forbidden by God.
Or, the math simply doesn’t add up.
The fact is that Revelation 12 is not in accordance with the date of September 23, 2017. It doesn’t fit. Date setters again.
Hi Joel,
As to that girl that begs you to unblock her from twitter? You blocked me on Twitter too because I happen to love President Trump! You were at that time,
against him. Don’t know how you feel now about him, and don’t care, but as a “teacher” you should have more patience with other believers. God cares
how you treat people.
Hi Amy,
I very much agree that God cares we treat people. At no time was I ever “against Trump.” I was highly critical of many of the things he was saying, and especially the way the way he was “treating people,” such as other candidates or even fellow believers. I certainly hope that you were as well. I support Trump as far as he promotes a conservative platform and I certainly support him against the onslaught of hatred directed his way from the radical left. That said, if someone was blocked on Twitter, it was never simply because they supported any candidate, but because they were un-Christlike, hateful, or rude etc. Social media is generally caustic enough. When you are a somewhat well know figure, it can be can be downright poisonous. Few can begin to understand the amount of critical comments, names, insults, and even at times, threats that I receive. It’s not always possible to sift through all of the e-mails, comments, and social media posts and discern exactly who is a troll, who is a distraction, and who is simply having a bad day. I do genuinely try to be kind whenever possible.
Blessings
Hi Joel,
Thank you for your video on this, you have presented very balanced view.
Love your challenge re 100K
Many blessings
Dean
Joel,
Wow,you must have the patience of Job to deal with all of these posts,etc.
Thankyou for your fruit thats easily seen in your responses.
Bless you and your family Joel.
Thank you for your great knowledge. I am a believer in God but sometimes my faith is tested when things like this happen. Then I remember to trust in God. Also I think the media/ every other prediction has a lot to do with people thinking worse case. Again thanks for the knowledge
Sir,
I really hope you are wrong I cannot stand this world much longer…
Maybe it’s possible that another kind of event could happen?
Like the anti-christ put in power or GOD lifting his restraining hand?
I hope and pray
One would be wise to pay no attention to anything that Joel Richardson says. Period.
One would be wise to check anything I say. I make plenty of mistakes, just like anyone else.
You don’t even need these other planets to line up to form any crown above Virgo’s head in Leo. They are always there in the first place! Leo has several actual binary stars and even one triple (Joseph and his two sons). You dont need to add any other planets to it to come up with 12. They have always been there.
Yup.
all I can say is….Three Square Market chipped their employees in their right hands August 1 2017… This is the mark of the beast…unless of course you think down the line ANOTHER mark is coming…no….Look up!
While chipping humans may indeed be a precursor to the coming mark of the beast, and yes it is rather frightening, it is not the mark of the beast. Simply stated, whoever takes the mark goes to hell. People are cast into the lake of fire based on their rejection or acceptance of Jesus, not whether or not they have a mere microchip implanted into them. The coming mark of the beast will by necessity include a denial of Jesus and the acceptance of an alternative religious beast system.
I think when the bible says signs in the sky, it means clear obvious signs like the moon being darkened etc….not something that people are debating about that may or may not be a sign.
Joel, Great Man of God. Critically acclaimed author and lecturer. Man of great faith.
A Man brought to his knees, seeking forgiveness, an evil servant, who says his Master delays His coming. Yet the Lord Almighty does not tarry.
Oh Joel, mighty Man. Woe, woe unto you, saith the Lord.
On that day, the mighty men will mourn, their children will be no more amongst them. “Why may I not go into hiding, Lord. Does thou not rememberest me?”.
“Depart from me, evil servant, I never knew you. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Hey Joel, Kevin Hoekman here, writer and producer of the Left Behind RTS series.
I came across this and I understand that this sign doesn’t fit your timetable of end time events due to your learning of Revelation 12:5 from teachers who are either like minded to you or lazy (they haven’t studied it through). Most of them like to tell Bible stories so they give a nice Bible story about Joseph and his coat and then a nice Bible story of Jesus’ birth and one of his ascencions and they call it a day. We deserve better.
The interpretation you give for the verse is that it refers to Jesus’ ascension. Without getting into which one (from the garden, the mountain, others?), the word used in the garden is 1st person, meaning Jesus said He needed to lift up, ascend. This means He was fully under control when ascending. In Acts, it simply says he lifted up or he ascended. Those use the same root word epairó.
Let’s make sure we’re clear on this. Jesus ascended to heaven of His own free will and under his own control. No other entity was ascending him without his consent nor was Jesus unable to resist some entity controlling him upward, correct?
That word and harpazo are actually not interchangeable with each other.
So let’s look at Harpazo, but not in context of The Rapture, because we understand what is going on there. God is doing the snatching and those taken to the air have absolutely no control of the situation. I’m sure we can agree on that.
Acts 8:39, 23:10, 2 Cor 12:2 and Matt 13:19.
In every one of these instances someone or something is being taken quickly, forcibly, with no possibility of resistance by the person being snatched. Can we agree to that?
Phillip had no choice, GOD moved him to another place on Earth.
Paul had no choice, the GUARDS got him out of there before he was “torn into pieces”, obviously quickly.
Whomever the man is in 2 Cor (probably Paul), God snatched him from Earth and put him in the 3rd heaven.
SATAN snatches the seed from the heart before it can grow roots.
At no time does the object being snatched have a choice, correct?
Jesus ascended into heaven. Correct? Jesus made the conscious choice to ascend to heaven, correct? Jesus was not snatched out by another entity, correct?
Obviously two completely different motivations, actions, abilities, etc.
These are 2 similar, but very different things.
Can we now please agree that the Harpazo in Rev. 12:5 is NOT speaking of EITHER of Christ’s ascensions?
I really want to make sure you understand that Jesus was never snatched by force, not having the ability to resist.
Mercurius,
You don’t have to spiritualize your insults. Simply saying something like, “Stop being a Berean Joel you SOB, you are ruining my cheap thrill for the year!” would be much more honest.
Hi Kevin,
There is no need to be rude. Whether we agree or not, we are all brothers in Christ. I am well aware of the words used in the various texts. When Jesus was taken up, there are various Greek words used to describe it. There is analambanō as well as epairō and diïstēmi. In Greek, as in English, every word has a range of meaning, and there is also more than one word for any given thing being described. For example, beyond the word harpazo, there are other words used in the New testament to describe the rapture, such as episynagōgē which means “gather together.” One event, multiple words. This is how language works.
Now, Jesus said that no man knows “the day or the hour.” Do you believe you know the day Kevin?
Joel,
I noticed in another post you mentioned that your interpretation of 2 Thess 2 is that in order for the Day of the Lord to occur culminating in a gathering of the elect to the Lord at his second coming; a rebellion, or mass falling away from the faith must come first and the Antichrist reveals himself in the temple showing himself to be God.
I was wondering if you had any ideas on what may trigger this mass exodus from the faith and when that might occur or if it already has or if it is happening as I type this? Also, if it is somehow measurable to determine when this event “apostasia” starts and ends.
In your interpretation, Paul would be telling the Church to not worry about missing the 2nd coming because they’ll fall away from the faith in great numbers first and then be either ruled over or killed by the Antichrist kingdom before Jesus gathers the few that didn’t fall away earlier. I’m fairly certain he wasn’t saying that because he mentions to them at that point in the letter to remember that he had told them something about this before.
The best thing about that is we don’t have to guess because we have his first letter to them so we can see what he told them before.
We come to find the Church was amazing. The people were witnessing to other cities, they gave up idols, and they were withstanding tribulations. Paul wanted to return and exhort them because they were getting persecuted but he couldn’t go so he sent Timothy who had an excellent report.
In other words, their faith was great. The last thing in anyone’s mind was a rebellion or a mass falling away from Jesus. In fact, they were doing better than what Paul thought they might be doing considering they were so young in the faith and were being persecuted by their Jewish brothers. The very same people they were worshipping with just the previous year or so in the synagogue. His hope was that they wouldn’t just give up and return to Judaism. Not only were they not doing that they were thriving.
Clearly, the rest if his letter deals with one topic and that is the Rapture.
You see, they didn’t get a letter from someone telling them they missed the Rapture, but that they missed the Day of the Lord, and Jesus’ second coming.
But Paul comforted them and told them it was impossible because the Antichrist wasn’t revealed and the abomination hadn’t been setup. Then he told them about the Rapture again. He reminded them that they restrain and the restrainer must be removed.
Apostasia…one word that has been so abused.
Apostasia – to take away from standing. It is not 2 actions.
It is not the rebellion AND the Antichrist is revealed.
It is not the departure AND the Antchrist is revealed.
It is the same thing Apostasia, the Antichrist is revealed.
What does the Antichrist do first in that day?
He takes away the daily standing of sacrifice and oblation.
You get 2,000 years of confusion when you translate it terribly. But in the end, the books are opened and you just take it literally. God is not a hard taskmaster.
Thanks for your time.
Hey Joel, I’m sorry if I came across as rude. It was not my intent.
Of course there are a bunch of words that have close meanings, and of all that you mentioned, only harpazo can’t be interchanged because it requires the object being seized to have no free will. All of the others words describe something that is just being moved, but never snatched out by force.
Harpazo is a very unique word and requires an overpowering force exerted on an object from an outside force to accomplish it.
Jesus never experienced that force from elsewhere as He said He was doing it.
Joel, don’t be silly. The moon for August hasn’t been sighted yet, let alone for September. How could I know the day and the hour? I won’t know until that exact instant.
Ah, I just re-read and see you think the word for gathering, episynagōgē, means the same as harpazo. Well that explains why you think they are the same event.
No. Actually how language works in the Bible is different than how it’s used in your books. The words used in the Bible are inspired and have an exact meaning and context. Sure, in English, they can all look the same, but when you look at their usages, only harpazo of all the 10-15 different words that have similar meanings is very different in one key aspect.
Outside overwhelming force done without warning, without notice, without say, it happens. The Paul in the middle of a crowd seeking to devour him is a perfect parallel. Without being harpazo’d, he’s dead. No other word could work there.
The man child has no power. God saves the man child. God never saved Jesus by snatching him up to the throne as He was never in danger, had His own free will, and the power to do it Himself on His terms.
Exact words are important. Especially with Revelation.
Kevin,
Never did any of the early church writers, many who actually spoke Greek, ever understand the apostasy of 2 Thessalonians to refer to the rapture. Quite the opposite. They all understood it to refer to a falling away as has traditionally been believed. In fact, this passage has been one of the greatest problem passages fro the pre-trib perspective. It has only been relatively recently that some pre-trib theologians have suggested such. Many other pre-trib theologians however, rightly reject this claim. I would highly encourage you to consider Alan Kurschner’s work on this subject. This is not about arguing about a subject to win, rather it is about exegesis, drawing out from the text what it says, and submitting ourselves to the text. Alan is presently completing his doctorate in New Testament Greek Linguistics as we speak, and has done an excellent good job of showing why this claim is absolutely unsupportable:
http://www.alankurschner.com/2015/09/11/does-apostasia-in-2-thessalonians-23-refer-to-a-physical-departure-i-e-the-rapture/
http://www.alankurschner.com/2017/04/26/the-greek-noun-apostasia-never-means-a-physical-spatial-departure-e-g-the-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23-part-1-ep-84/
Blessings,
Joel
Kevin,
You’ve expressed a few falsehoods and lexical fallacies here.
First, the word episynogoge is used elsewhere of the rapture. So with all due respect, you’ve completely blundered that one:
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him (2 Thessalonians 2:1)
Second, I did not say that episynagōgē always means the same thing as harpazo, but it most certainly can be used interchangeably at times as I just showed above. As in English, so also in Greek throughout the New Testament, many words can be used interchangeably. Let me give you one example. Words such as earth (ge), land (terra), world (oikumene) and even universe (cosmos) may at times be used in very restrictive and specific forms, while at other times they are used interchangeably.
Third, as for your claim that Harpazo is a word that means that someone does not have “free will” as you say, you will not find a single Greek lexicon to support such a statement. While the word does have the connotation of snatching up, sometimes violently or suddenly, etc., the referent is the one on the receiving end. On the other hand, the phrases “take up” or “gather together” for example, can just as easily be used to describe the same event from the perspective of the one doing the actual snatching up. Another example beyond the one above, in Matthew 13:30, we read:
‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’
The “gathering” here of the wheat is describing the rapture of the saints. The word there is not harpazo, but synagō. It is also used of the rapture in Matthew 3:2 and Luke 3;17.
We need to be responsible students of the Scriptures, and not simply make things up. I will address this use of the man child and the problems that it is speaking of the rapture in a forthcoming Underground episode. Please understand that I do not have time to continue to go back and forth on this, as I am swamped with pressing projects and deadlines, so please hang tight until then.
Many Blessings,
Joel
Thank you for this. It’s really eased my mind. (Your video) I believe in the Lord, I do. I’ve actually come to that realization that I need too get more involved with going to church and what not, especially with my children. Regardless, if this is a “sign” or regardless if on Sept 24th we are still here! I still am going too trust in the Lord, accept the Lord, and above all things live by His words. Even after all of this is over.
My only question in my mind that is still wondering, is why is it now, people are stating and showing “facts” that nibiru will be crashing into earth Sept 23 2017? This really bugs me.
Adults claiming that Niburi is going to hit the earth are little different than 13 year old girls telling ghost stories to excite themselves at a sleepover party. Deep down inside, they don’t really believe their own stories. Perhaps they find it entertaining, perhaps they enjoy the attention they receive when they tell fanciful stories. Whatever it might be, despite the fact that there is absolutely zero genuine evidence that Niburu even exists, many folks looking to fill some unmet emotional hole will continue to tell tall tales. Pay no attention.
Blessings,
Joel
Great teaching Joel! Thank you for illuminating that topic so brilliantly! God bless you brother.
(Note: This post was trimmed down by the moderator.)
Joel,
…Now Joel, you really should have had your post peer reviewed because it really shows your lack of understanding…
…You know what Joel. I have an IQ of over 150 and I have yet to meet someone more logical than I. It is not boasting, it is just fact. God gave me this gift so it is very easy to see fallacies and I obviously can’t hold you to my standard considering your performance…
…Unfortunately, it does not surprise me. Nor has it surprised others. The credibility of you and other “prophecy teachers” are at an all time low. Not in regards to what yoi predict, but your method on getting there and your familiarity with the times wr are living in. When people like you … don’t do your homework, spend an hour talking nonsense, you look ignorant, apathetic, pitiful. We expected more. We got close to nothing. Just empty shells, busy with yoir own work, where you will go buy and sell next year…with no Lord willing…because you are puffed up inside, knowing the day of the rapture is not at hand…
…I feel bad for you, we all do…
Kevin,
Thank you for your comments. Unfortunately, my web-site is not a forum where anyone may make extensive posts espousing false doctrine, especially when they’re as rude, unChristlike and insult-laced as your comments above. I would certainly expect someone with such a remarkable IQ as you to understand this. I do wish you well.
Blessings,
Joel
[Note: This post has also been edited by the moderator]
Joel, I completely understand why you removed certain parts and left the other parts in. That is the advantage of having this IQ, I’m able to discern your exact motivations. I could care less if anyone else reads any of these words… All of you Laodicean’s hang out together spew forth your half grace Gospel… Considering you have it [the Rapture] so wrong, I don’t think you really can understand it because you simply haven’t put 10000’s of hours into it as I have… you are a false teacher of the Rapture and every time you open your mouth when you speak of it, it sickens my Spirit… In fact Joel, you are a viper, leading your flock on a suicide mission that you will have to answer for. Only because of the Spirit’s grace residing in me allows me to believe and pray somehow God snatches you agaist your will…. on the way out (we only have 5-6 weeks or so to even be able to chat)… You are the worst of the worst of the Bible teachers because you left your first estate…
Hi Kevin,
So just to summarize: You have a super high IQ, which allows you to know the evil motivations of my heart, any who visit this site and myself are all Laodiceans, the rapture is in about 5 or 6 weeks from now, because I am calling folks to preach the Gospel in foreign lands I am leading them on a suicide mission, I am a false teacher, a viper, and the worst of all Bible teachers and similar to the fallen angels in Jude.
These are some very serious things to feel and express about fellow believers. I genuinely pray that after your false predictions do not materialize on September 23rd, you will find the grace and strength of character to not simply repent, but also to come back here and humbly express yourself as eloquently as you have today.
Many Blessings,
Joel
[Moderator edited]
…My IQ allows me to read between the lines of MEN’s words and deeds… Yes Joel, you have taken the Gospel to foreign lands and that is commendable. Unfortunately, you put your twist on it, and corrupted Paul’s message which was one of comfort, into one of terror. This can’t be overlooked. Your salvation of course renains (sic) in tact (sic) from the day you first believed, but there are just punishments for those who are in power and have crept in unaware with their false doctrine… Joel, you really don’t get it… I read your words about coming back here after the sign and I physically laughed…
And by the way Joel, don’t get so haughty about your works. God has made good come from them, but in the end, they are all dross.
Hi Kevin,
I clicked on your reply here and saw by your IP address that you have also been posting here under the name “Mercurius” and made the following comment below:
Kevin, to be very blunt, this is just pathetic. First you make asinine comments while hiding behind a fake name and then you use your real name and pretend to be polite. Of course that didn’t last. You should legitimately be embarrassed. Beyond this, the idea that someone would be sent to hell for not holding the same perspective regarding the timing of the rapture is beyond asinine. The reason I have allowed you to flaunt your juvenile, self-inflated, and outright rude behavior has largely been out of my own fascination with the mindset of folks like you––this angry contingent of folks so obsessed with the belief that the rapture will be September 23rd that they actually are hostile toward their own brothers and sisters who disagree. There is much to be said here, but it is sad to say the least. Nevertheless, although allowing you to rant has been revealing, I’ve wasted far too much time. Time to move on. If you have any character at all, again, I greatly encourage you to come back on September 24th and apologize for what you have said and done here. I pray you will.
Blessings,
Joel
Joel,
Thanks for your research and your sober, realistic approach to the concern of September 23. There are obvious faults with the idea that this is THE event of Rev. 12. And though it is compelling and exciting to think this is a sign of something prophesied in Revelation, the facts are it is not. You’ve done a fantastic job in laying this out in a way any one could understand. However, folks will believe what they want and alter them if need be, convinced there must be something there when there is not. And, as in the case of the constellations and heavenly body configurations on Sept. 23, there is not.
I’m so glad I came across your website. I look forward to visiting every chance I can. We should have no lack of Bereans such as yourself who approach God’s word with a sound mind, and I’m sure, led by The Holy Spirit (and with a tongue I can understand, yea!)
Be strong, my brother, and don’t let these naysayers bring you down. Of course, I’m sure you knew you’d be pulling them out of the wood works when you embarked on this endeavor.
Peace,
Kenny
Thanks so much Kenny. Many are the angry critics, fewer are the encouragers. Much appreciated. Blessings!
Umm… Im trying to get closer to GOD… Am I right in thinking of what your saying is that the 23rd of next month not the final warning? Me and my wife are worried that we wont be able to stop our bad habbits in time other wise….. sorry for such a foolish question…
Scott,
Today is the day of salvation. Today is the day to repent. Do I personally believe that September 23rd is the final warning? No, I do not. That said, what if I am wrong? The biblical warning remains: The Day of the Lord is near. Repent therefore and be ready.
Blessings,
Joel
As it is therefore said in the Bible For the Hour of the day is unknown not even the Son Of God but God Himself the Creator,There are some false predictions,for example 793 Apr 6 By, Beatus Of Liebana He prophecied that the second coming was in that day,So no one really knows when the rapture will take place and when will the revelation begins but every second every minute every hour every day we should be ready.
Blessings,
Rodrigo
Thank you for the work you do sir. Originally, I was looking up information to debunk the September 23rd and Rev 12 theory and make a video for my Youtube channel. ( but i won’t say the name because I understand about self promotion on someone else’s site ) It is just awesome to know that there are people like yourself who hold on to the truth and won’t back down in the face of opposition. How you handled Mr. Kevin Hoekman was classic……..I took a few pointers from you when it comes to being patient and precise! Thank you once again and have a super great day!
GOD Bless,
Paul
The reason the vast majority of you people posting here and you also Joel cannot see what is about to take place on 9-23-2017 is because it has not been given for you to see.
Hi Peter,
Having been a Berean, done due diligence and examined it, I have found that there is nothing to this. Its really that simple. We can discus this further on September 24th.
Blessings,
Joel
Joel,
I’ve spent a considerable amount of time researching the possible fulfillment of Revelation 12 this September. I’ve thoroughly examined the issue from every angle. I too am a Berean and I have done my due diligence. After 18 months of exhaustive study I have concluded that it would be irresponsible to fully dismiss this sign. It is clear to anyone who has read your writings or heard you speak that your are an intellectual. As such, I was excited to learn of the reasoning behind your denial of the sign. After reading your thoughts however, I am surprised by your lack of due diligence. Your analysis and understanding of what takes place in the heavens is riddled with blatant errors. This leads me to believe that your bias against the sign has inhibited your ability to give this any legitimate, unbiased thought or study, You may be right. Come September 24th we may be able to discuss this further. However, as someone who came to your site seeking information from one who has done their due diligence on the matter, I will continue my search elsewhere.
To so adamantly dismiss this sign is entering dangerous territory. The information you have given regarding this sign is evidence that you do not have the requisite knowledge on the matter to steer anybody in a particular direction. There are too many convergences this year to boldly lead people to believe that there is nothing to see here. I will not say with 100% certainty that the sign John describes in Revelation 12 is fulfilled September 23rd. But my question to you is: what if you’re wrong? What if this is indeed the fulfillment of Revelation 12? I would certainly fear being one who vehemently encouraged people to turn a blind eye to the return of Jesus for His bride. I make no attempt to sway you from your viewpoint. However, I do caution you against taking such a dogmatic posture towards the possible fulfillment of the Revelation 12 sign.
Austin
Austin,
I assure you I have done my due diligence on this matter. The key problems I have shown with the alleged sign are valid. Jupiter is not in Virgo for 9 months, as is claimed. The planetary alignment combined with Leo is not the crown of twelve stars, as is claimed. This is not a rare sign, as is claimed. If one wishes to point to other issues such as the number of years since Israel took Jerusalem etc., that is another matter altogether. Confidence is not dogmatism. There is no “Great Sign” in the heavens this year. Jesus is not going to return this year. If He does, I feel confident that I have likewise been faithful preparing people for His return, in that I continually encourage folks to be about the business of the Kingdom and not wasting their time speculating endlessly on Youtube, debating dates and times and other matters such as this.
Blessings,
Joel
I believe this September 23rd business is being spread by false prophets, but I also see it as a chance for believers to get closer to God, and for us to walk closer with him, for we all sin and fall short of the glory of god, but he still loves us, his son died for us, this is what we need to remember…….God bless us all
Hey Joel. Nice video. Very concise. I know people just want to see in the future, and when they see something on the internet, they believe it to be true .Sadly of course it isn’t. The eclipse that crossed the US seems to me a warning that something is gonna happen, whether it is the fault in the pacific or Yellowstone, I don’t know. but the other thing is I don’t live like a prepper. Whatever happens. happens .People cannot live in fear…that is not living. Those who are waiting for a sign tho should only look for the last sign to be fulfilled which is rebuilding the temple. Anyways stay meek my friends!
Hey Joel, just wanted to say thanks for bringing some sanity back into this debate. This Kevin Hoekman guy is a real humdinger. I have been dialoguing with him on his YouTube channel for about a month, until he blocked me. He is very delusional and he thinks that his great intellect is unquestionable. It would be laughable if not so tragic. I spend much time discerning and disputing many false teachings, on you tube as well as in person. I am always amazed at the degree of anger and outright hatred that is spewed my way, by those that hold to a strict futuristic and literal view of the end times. I do kind of understand, because I myself believed and taught much of this nonsense for the first twelve years of my walk with the Lord. About twenty three years ago God began to open my eyes to biblical truth. Praise Him for His faithfulness. Just wanted to encourage you to keep up the good work. God bless, AJ
Hello Joel,
I’ve heard some people disregard the argument that the Sun isn’t inside Virgo itself by claiming that the Sun is supposed to represent a “clip” like the romans would wear on their shoulders to hold their clothes together, which they wore on their shoulder, what do you say to this?
Hi Alfred,
I would respond in two ways. First, I would simply say that September 24th will settle the matter soon enough. What I say ultimately means little. The Lord will settle the matter in just a couple weeks. Second, I would simply ask what the Bible actually says. I think this is relevant and I am sure you would agree. So the Bible says she is “clothed,” not merely “clipped” by the sun. That said, I would allow for the possibility that the sun is clothing the woman, although it really is not doing so in a way we would traditionally think of being clothed. The problem of course is that folks are determined to see something and no amount of logic or reason can deter them. This is why so many have become so angry when folks like myself call for caution and call us all to be Bereans. Because so many want this to be real, they are throwing caution out the door. (Other than in hedging their bets and qualifying that they are not really making any predictions, just before they say something “epic” is going to happen, etc.) This issue of the sun clothing her is really a minor issue however. As I said, I would even allow that this actually could count, even though it feels like it is being a bit shoe-horned in to fit. The bigger issue is the failure of the totality of the various components of the so-called sign to all align in some unique way. for example, no one has been honest enough to acknowledge that Jupiter was never actually in Virgo’s womb for nine months, but actually left for two months. In talking to the primary proponent of this sign, when I asked him about this, he simply brushed it aside. On one hand, the lines don’t really matter he told me. But then in several of his videos and interviews, the lines are of utmost importance to him and his argument. So again, unfortunately, its a matter of folks simply wanting to see something so much that they are not thinking through it fairly and consistently.
As I have now said dozens of times, soon enough we will all see that this was just another example of failed date-setting. The Lord will settle the matter soon enough. Again, I know the die hard proponents of this will protest that they never really set dates or made predictions, but we all know that is simply not true. The Lord doesn’t forbid “date-setting” but wink at “date-suggesting.” They are the same. People are looking to this date with great expectation and those who have wrongly taught that this is “The Great Sign of Revelation 12” are entirely to blame. This is exactly why teachers will incur a harsher judgment. I simply hope that those who have taught this will be willing on September 24 to soberly acknowledge what they have done and the disappointment they have brought about. I pray it will be a learning experience that will not be repeated in the future.
Blessings!
Joel
Well in mark 13:33 “31Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 32But as for that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33Be on your guard and stay alert! For you do not know when the appointed time will come.…”. So really that there tells us god is not returning yet, because none of us will no not even the angels of the heavens but there will be changes in the earth just pray you won’t take part in these changes
Hello,
So many people are saying that Jesus/Yeshua is not expected to return that night or the rapture to happen. I have heard that it is a sign that is either the start or midpoint of the tribulation. Could that be? Is that possible at this point? I have also heard that the “no man knows the day or hour” is referring to Yom Teruah. Apparently no one knew when the day or hour was going to start when the new month would pass. Idk. I am only going off of memory of what I heard. I am very curious as to what you think about the 70 week daniel prophecy. I dont see that we are in the place of the end just yet but… I cant help but be nervous about the stuff going on now. I also dont think the sign would be different or even slightly altered if it was a God thing. He is very precise and consistent. Any response would be great! Thanks!
Joel,
I would say that you’re ummm…. just slightly selling God’s intellectual capacity a tad short of omnipotent, if you believe he’d throw anything even close to the Rev 12 Sign into the Heavens especially at this specific time of human existence while we look & pray, hope & yearn for.something exactly such as that?? But he decided at Creation to tease us true born-again Christians with something similar, close… but not quite the REAL THING??!
GIVE ME a BREAK JOEL!!! Please tell me you’re wiser, and that your Christian Discernment is better than THAT??!!
It happens every 11 or 12 years. Always has, always will.
Hello Joel,
I wonder if you could contact all of us, when you change your position on this.
Not that the guy/any of them, have it all right. I hold a different Eschatology than you do, but – I also agree – this is not a Rapture sign, but.. to me, a lot of it does make sense. As an example – – this is a quite odd alignment. Jupiter’s orbit of 11.86 years means – quite simply, that – Jupiter will hit it’s retrograde motion in or near Virgo’s womb once every 1186 years. And as you say – while the Sun and Mood do get around Virgo every – – perhaps 10 years, that means that when Jupiter last was in Virgo back in 2017-1186= 831 AD, there would be only about a 1 in 10 chance, that the Sun and the moon would be in correct alignment also. Just based on the Math – I consider this to be quite rare, so I will watch it the evening of the 22nd, and morning of the 23rd. It truly IS odd.
What makes me a bit MORE interested, is – – if this truly IS the “event” then are there to also be notable birth pains, that will be noticed here on Earth? It has been decades, since I have been in a birthing area, but – – if I remember it was – a bit rocky. Was a bit wet, and loud, and some shaking. and shouting went on. Would these take the form of earthquakes in Mexico,(?) or perhaps Hurricanes in Florida(?). If this is the case, then – – it might be nice to know, that – – these disturbances will end – – after the Birth takes place, which would mean this could be a message of Hope, of sorts? (just a different view).
However it turns out – – I would like to know, if – and when you change your position.
Thank you for the years – – you have put into your studies.
Bert
Bert,
This alignment happened just 11 or 12 years ago. As I have repeatedly said, it happens every eleven or twelve years. Minus the alignment in Leo, which again is not relevant, as that has nothing to do with her crown of twelve stars. Jupiter enters Virgo along with the sun and moon. Were there birthing pain then? Also, fwiw, I have been in several birthing rooms. There was nothing wet, nor screaming, until the day of the birth. Not weeks ahead of time. If we are sticking to the nine month analogy, which is what is being claimed, albeit wrongly, then lets say consistent.
Blessings,
Joel
Blessings,
Joel
Hello Joel,
Yes. I agree, 100 percent, that – – the Moon and the Sun do line up on or near Virgo – somehow, and in some-way – every year. And they get close to the Virgo alignment fairly often.
I believe I first ran across this “alignment” issue, when Greg Killian posted about it in his WATCHMAN site. Yes, he had Bernieces crown being the crown of 12 stars, and he had the moon under Virgo’s feet – and the sun above, in her hair. Old Stuff, really, to me. Dredging up – – this stuff. I think he was looking at it in 1998 or there-abouts?
But what i do find unusual, is Jupiter being included – – and Jupiter being in retrograde, so that is rests in and or near Virgo’s womb for about 9-10 months – with Jupiter leaving on or about September 23rd, at / near the new moon. . Math then says – – this is both quite normal (is just orbits after-all) and yet is quite unusual. In looking at the math – – as Jupiter’s orbit is 11.86 years – – during the next advent of Jupiter going into retrograde Jupiter would find itself not ending in late September but at another time? of 2029 after resting in the constellation of ? (will look).
First off should say thanks. You challenge me. Tis good. Forces me to think, and study more. Here are my results.
I decided I needed a cut-off point. I then decided when Jupiter cleared the dress hem – would be a point that could be noted. As this next would happen in 2029, I watched things there. Cleared hem on 2029-10-15. Jupiter did surprise me, and he still did rest in Virgo. Notes are – Best Moon/feet Sun/hair alignments were around 8-18 and 9-11. the Nov alignment was not close. Again, Jupiter broke plane of hem on 2029-10-15. I came back then – and looked at when Jupiter breaks the hem plane in 2017. That happened, on 2017-10-28, I think. Perhaps 2017-10-29, or 30th? Surprisingly, it was almost impossible to tell. The Planets had piled on, so to speak. On 10-20 the moon, Mercury, and Jupiter along with the star Spica all piled on – so using this program I could not really see when Jupiter broke the plane of Virgo’s hem. To top it off, both Venus and Mars were also were in the neighborhood. It was interesting to see that. But as for solid results? Only result was – Jupiter broke the Hemline around 14-16 days earlier, than in it’s next orbit – in 2029. Other note is, no planets piled on that I observed in 2029. The major differences were – a. no good moon/feet sun/hair times observed, and no planet pile on in 2029, and about a 14-16 day earlier exit in 2029.
And my view about Biblical forecasting is, it should be – mostly ignored – – but – – I do believe are at times, a grain of truth, under all the chaff. So I try to spend some of my time, throwing this chaff in the air, looking for that seed.
Next will try to look out multiple years, both forward and backwards – – to try to see if I can measure Jupiter’s progress a bit better.
And now – – I need to get back to what pays… like work.
Bert
Bert,
Jupiter entered Virgo last November, and exited for two months during June July this year. Then it goes back in and exits in September. Not September 23rd. So this is no more special than any other eleven year cycle when Jupiter enters Virgo for a period that is not nine months. Now if one wishes to say that this period in which Jupiter leaves doesn’t count because it it not by much, and is only slightly outside of Virgo, then they must be consistent and have Jupiter enter Virgo earlier using the same standard as to what is still considered “in Virgo.” This would mean Jupiter will be in Virgo for close to eleven months. No baby is in the womb that long. Bottom line, is that it doesn’t work. People have been deceived.
Blessings,
Joel
Fortunately this will all be over soon.
On the other hand, if history is any guide, they may still say it happened “spiritually”
I’m glad you made this video Mr. Richardson. According to the latest reports from NASA/JPL, the Juno orbiter mission to Jupiter, the material composition of the gas giant is 10-15% hydrogen gas, 70-80% liquid metallic nitrogen (also a gas), and only about 4-15% solid dense core (of unknown substance), that makes Jupiter a revolving mass of dense GAS… not so much material to be ejected if and ever it collides with a planetary body. A planetary collision would have to be a direct hit for the planet to eject a substantial amount of matter that would cause a massive amount of matter to be strewn across an area between the earth and Jupiter. Ejecta matter would be more realistic if there would be a collision towards one of the moons. But this is highly unlikely. These people who are spreading the propaganda of this Jupiter planetary collision with a planet of almost the same size has no scientific basis whatsoever. Being a student of Bible prophecy for over 30 years I know you are absolutely right.
Hi Joel,
I know you are probably sick of these questions related to September 23rd but I need to ask.
As we get closer to the date i am seeing more and more news stories stating the rapture is coming, end of the world in the next week. Should I really be worried about these or are they all lies. I have watched your video multiple times and it does help me become less scared but seeing media outlets posting these stories I’m really scared.
I’m only 15 and really want to live a full life and I’m very afraid that I won’t live to see this year out?
Stefan,
First, are you right with the Lord? If not, then get right with the Lord. Forget the rapture, you could die tomorrow. No one knows their day and we must always be ready to face the Lord and the judgment. Agreed?
Second, I assure you that September 23rd will not be the rapture nor the end of the world. This will be yet another false prediction made by those who have not rightly interpreted the Bible.
Third, fear is not something you should be experiencing. Fear is not from the Lord. Fear God alone.
Blessings,
Joel
Thank you for your reply Joel,
I have faith in the Lord and I trust what you have said
Blessings
Stefan
I’ll have a new audio podcast up about it tomorrow.
Where will I be able to hear the audio podcast mentioned above?
About September 23?
http://branch.podomatic.com
Should be up by tomorrow. Keep checking back at this link.
Hello Again Joel,
I have listened to the podcast you mentioned earlier and I have to thankyou again for clearing this whole thing up.
Your and amazing teacher with great knowledge. your videos are amazing and I am looking forward to seeing more videos from you in the coming months.
This ” Great sign of September 23 2017″ has been scaring me since I first heard it in July but after sitting back and thinking it over I know I have nothing to fear since i’m in the hands of the lord.
May gods grace bless you and your family,
Stefan .
Hello Joel, Greetings.
Well – – weekend hit – and – I cranked up Stellerium and got busy.
My thought was – OK. Let me see if this has happened before, where Jupiter sat in Virgo’s womb (approximately), and sun in hair (approximately), and moon was under feet (approximately).
Again, as moon is on a 11.86 year earth time orbit – this happening – is not exactly a normal yearly thing. And as Jupiter is out of phase, so to speak – – mathematically – – this is a relatively odd happening. As had said – – I am planning on watching it. Doubt I will see this happening again – so – I just want to see it. So I cranked up the program, and here is what I found.
On 2017-9-23 this is to happen. I also found that in 2278-9-21 the program says it will happen again. a 261 year gap. Now in the past, this has happened in 1755-9-25, but that year, Sun behind shoulder – but moon at feet. Then in 1495-9-26 again Sun left shoulder, moon at feet. 1234 – Sun at waist, moon at feet. Then 973-9-2, a good pic. Sun in hair, moon at feet. Then in 451-9-2 Sun at shoulder again, and moon at feet – – a couple of feet away. A pretty good match. Then in 190-8-22 we again we have a good line-up. Sun in hair. Moon a couple feet away from feet.. So let us go BC to see what we see. In -71-8-26 I show Sun at left shoulder, just above. Moon at feet, 3 feet away. Again, a pretty good view.
Have no particular additional thoughts – but figured I would give you the data.
Speaking of the data – – I checked out Stellarium -. It seems very accurate – out to 6000 years. How I did that – is – knew a Chronologist named Eugene Faulstich. He had HIS program checked out to 6000 years by NASA, and I had HIS data back that far. (am a bit of a pack rat) He had printed some star maps. Stellarium seems to agree with his maps (so far as I could tell)(presented by him in a different format). However on the Internet – There are quite a few OTHER maps, – supposedly proving various things, about Christ’s birth/etc – – that do NOT agree with Stellarium, so.. buyer beware!
In conclusion – – ha, I still plan on taking pictures. Doubt I will live to see the next one. And do I expect to see anything? Not really – – but – – I still have my eclipse sunglasses, so…
PS. I noticed that the dates seemed to be earlier – losing a full month the farther back one goes – and I did not line up the data with the Hebrew calendar so – I do not know if their holidays changed. I just used standard Gregorian time.
I suspect I am done with the data gathering phase, so – will probably move on. Hopefully, the data is of some use to you. And whatever happens, will happen in it’s time.
Bert
Hi Joel. Thank you for your reassurance. I have lived through many ‘predictions’ from various sources in my short 20 years on this planet and I am sure that I will live to see and live through many more. While I am not a religious fanatic, I do highly respect religion and people’s beliefs and the fact that there may be a God. There is enough bigotry in this world and there does not need to be more so I do not go around claiming rude things. I will admit that as I get older, I find myself coming around to the idea of having a stronger faith. I feel that I start to believe a little more every time there is a ‘scare’ like this. I am a little nervous for nobody will truly know, but I know that in time I will fully trust in the Lord. Thank yo for your clarification.
Hello Joel,
Just some pointers to the total dis lodging of the Sept 23rd unique events. You based this on Jupiter not totally in Virgo’s womb, The Event is not unique because it happened before in 1827, 1483, 1293, and 1056 and that we cannot borrow from the Leo Stars to make the Crown of 12 stars. I just want to add that The Biblical view dos not say it is a straight line but a “Woman” we don’t know how if she was big or small to have allowed Jupiter to roam. 2. It happened 1827, 1483, 1293, and 1056 but did this year ever was considered ” The Last Days” like we now have in our world as you have even been able to identify who the Antichrist might be – so you have to factor in timing for the legitimacy of the sign. 3. Leo’s stars was made by God and He can sure choose to align those to fulfill this whether we borrow of not God can move them to make the word true.
We seem to be missing the Point here about Revelations 12, it is not emphasizing that the Signs is the main attraction but Verse 7 of Rev 12 which is the timing where Michael dislodges Satan from the 2nd Heavens and for the first time, Satan is Cast to the Earth and their place was NO MORE found in Heaven, but Woe to the Inhabiters of the Earth for Satan has come to Live among’st you. Emphases is on the arrival of Satan and the anti Christ showing up. That is the key not some unfounded disputes about stars not been there or there about which can mislead many from understanding this. Hope this helps
I didn’t delete your comment Paul. It takes time fro some comments to be posted. Your second comment was quite rude. I have deleted that one.
Hi Joel
Thank you so much for all your information and your books, awesome!
I think the best is really to just ‘be ready’, If the Lord said He’s preparing a place for us and will return to take us there to be with Him where He is, then He will definitely do this at some point …. it does not really matter whether it’s before or in the middle or after the tribulation, All that Jesus said that we needed to do was to be watching and ready … it will happen when God has determined that it is to happen and no-one can do or change anything about, regardless of how much they may try. And if He said that no-one knows the day or the hour, not even the angels or Himself but the Father only, then why can’t people just leave it at that? …
I think these verses are as clear as day and I don’t understand why people constantly have to keep speculating and coming up with all sorts of dates and signs and interpretations and going public with it…. how many times more is this going to happen? …. I believe that if we try to be ready and just keep watch as the Lord said, we will ‘know’ when it begins and that it is actually happening … everything else just creates too much unnecessary confusion and anxiety and disappointment and it doesn’t really help anyone, it just ends up in ‘sensationalism’ and it appears to me that this says a lot about the people who keep doing this …
We should just trust the Lord that we will ‘know’ when we ‘see’ it, if we’re ready and watching (expecting it). Therefore I think sharing the Word and ‘being ready’ should be the focus of our attention until the time comes. And it WILL come.
God bless you brother Joel and thanks for the opportunity.
Monica
My take on the Revelation 12 is that I take Scott Clarke seriously. That he is correct except for his Tribulation from 2014 to 2021 belief in 2013. He was wrong then. I doubt that the Corona Borealis is the seven crowns on the head of the Dragon or serpent. Is Ophiuchus, Michael fighting the Serpent (Satan) in Revelation 12: 3? May be. Steve Cioccolanti also agrees with this sign as Clarke may be incorrect in some aspects. Mark Biltz is also aligned with the Great Sign of September 23, 2017. It is a sign for birth pangs
I have always had the belief that I could marry a protestant woman who was an Armenianist, while I am a Calvinist. No problem for me to disagree even with a wife IF she will read scripture with me and discuss it. I could have even married a Roman Catholic IF she opposed the evil goings on in the Vatican for centuries including the murder of Albigensian s and Waldensian s as being an illegitimate use of Papal power. However No support from me of the ungodly movement of socialism whatsoever, as being compatible with Christianity. First Corinthians 6 and Galatians 5 disagrees with them, Christianity is NOT Social Justice. Democrats are dead wrong. Otherwise disagreement over doctrine MUST be discussed without blind doctrinal hardheadedness. The entire United States Congress is filled with democrats and republicans, that do not know right from wrong.
Joel,
Would you be willing to do another one of these for April 23rd:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/04/14/could-world-come-to-end-on-april-23-are-biblical-end-times-finally-upon-us.html
I haven’t even paid attention to this. I doubt nearly as many folks are anticipating anything to happen. With the previous false predictions, folks were convinced because of the faulty interpretation of the “astral alignment.” Besides, the date is already essentially past.