24 Responses

1. Hi Joel, I have to tell you that after reading your two books islamic antichrist and mideast beast twice, i decided to launch my own study of Eze. 38-39. So i jumped in with both feet, found a site that has over 100 commentaries. I started with commentary #1 and then 2 and so on for about a total of 8 or 9 commentaries on just the first 2 verses of eze 38. To make a long story short…My brain hurts. On a positive note I got Walter C Kaiser’s book preaching and teaching from the old testament. Thanks Joel for the books you wrote and for the straight forward declaration of the gospel.

2. Hey Shawn, I also have found Joel’s books to be refreshing & eye-opening. Might I suggest you also read “When a Jew Rules the World”? It’s a great read too. Really opened my eyes to some history I was somewhat ignorant of & so I was sub-consciencely revising it in my mind. It’s a little different than Joel’s two (topically), but well worth the read. God Bless!

3. Finally! I’m anxious to watch this video. Thank you for your faithfulness in teaching God’s word – we so appreciate you! Look forward to your next trip to Denver 🙂

4. Just hoping to get an answer to a eschatology question: My understanding is that after the abomination of desolation there will be an invasion of Israel. However, the Antichrist armies surround Jerusalem when Christ returns. How can the Antichrist surround Jerusalem if it has already been invaded by him?

5. What passage are you looking to specifically that would indicate that armies surround Jerusalem immediately prior to the return of Jesus? The Olivet discourse makes it clear that this happens just before the Abomination of Desolation. (Luke 21)

6. It is intimated by Dan 11:44, but more specifically in Rev 16:12-16 with the sixth bowl/vial where the evil spiritual forces promote this gathering unto the great battle of Armageddon at the day of the Lord. Note that Rev 16:12-16 reference to the “thief-like” return of Jesus and “day of God” is the same context as mentioned by Peter in II Pet 3:10-12.

7. Joel,

   I didn’t have a specific passage in mind, but maybe Zechariah 12:3 would be a good representative of the siege before the Second Coming…or maybe the siege in Isaiah 36-37 as a type of the Antichrist’s siege before the Second Coming. I’m trying to fix a hole in my eschatology…the relationship of the Antichrist’s armies and Jerusalem/Israel. I had thought this was the sequence of events: abomination of desolation, flee to mountains before invasion, invasion, after time passes, Jerusalem is surrounded, Christ returns to defeat Antichrist and his armies. What I cannot reconcile is the siege of a city which had already been taken in a previous invasion by the same enemy. No need to take something you already have. There must be something I am missing here.

8. I don’t think there is necessary any passage that says there is a secondary siege per se. I think you may have some wrong assumptions. I could be wrong.

9. Chris, I used to struggle with that one, how could ac take Jerusalem a second time? He doesnt.The Armageddon battle in Rev16 is not a battle to retake Jerusalem, notice in Rev 16v14 it says this is the battle of the day of God almighty,

   This second gathering of ac’s armies is not to retake Jerusalem, but to fight Christ and his armies as we see in Rev19.
   Psalm 2 speaks of this battle ,

   ‘The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers of the earth take council together,againt the Lord and against his anointed saying, let us break their hands asunder,and cast their votes from us’ Psalm 2:2-3 (also see rev17:14)

   Remember in ezek38 ac takes and plunders Jerusalem, then in ch39 God gathers him and his army together again so destroy them, Rev 14v19 say God gathers ac’s armies into the winepress.

   After taking Jerusalem Satan decieves men into believing they can actually take on God and his anointed, but as Spalm2 says, he will laugh at them.

10. Hello Joel
    It is really good that this Topic is beginning to arise and that many are starting to search Scripture for themselves. Keep up the Brilliant work of getting this stuff out there Joel. It is vital today that we search Scripture and encourage others to know the Truth.
    We need more Debates and need to be like the Bereans.
    Are you ever going to come to Australia?
    God Bless

11. Next year in September in Perth and likely a few hours north of Brisbane. Details yet to come.

12. Woohoo! Great news about trip to Oz. I’m excited to hear this.

13. Shalom, Joel!
    Someday you will come to Brazil?

14. Hi Joel,
    I just received the DVD in the mail today and promptly sat down to listen to it tonight…
    I have to say when I became a Christian at 30 the, the Tim Lahay/Jemkins Left behind series was in full swing and I purchased them all in hard cover for my knowledge base… I became some what disillusioned over the years however when the primary focus was the soon rapture we were all waiting for…

    Over the years as I studied some more I just couldn’t see the whole Roman Empire stuff, etc etc… and almost went down the road of a partial preterist with Hank Hannegraph of CRI…

    I fully get it as you teach it and it makes total sense and flows from scripture and in light of what is going on all around the middle east as it relates to the Bible and Israel…

    Thanks again Joel… you were generous and gracious in the debate in light of some of the comments from Tom Ice…

    ps… I do think Mr Ice did warm up to you a bit and relax toward the end… but he seemed bent on projecting his view over actual biblical straight forward disciplines … I hope Thomas came to the debate with an attitude of learning as it seemed you always do… God bless… Abraham

15. Thanks Abraham. Blessings to you!

16. Your DVD came today JOEL.
    Really looking forward to watching it!

17. Regarding a Roman Antichrist. The last seat of the Roman Empire was Constantinople, which the Roman emperor Constantine named Nova Roma (New Rome) in 330 AD. So the caliphate of Islam took over the final seat of the Roman Empire. In this regard there is definitely a Roman connection. The old city of Istanbul is surrounded by seven hills, just as the previous capital of the Empire. This is no doubt one of the reasons Constantine chose it as his new capital.

18. O dear

    Listening to Tommy was as frustrating as listening to anti-brexiters! Loads of misrepresentations and false accusations.you did really well to sit so calmly, I would have been up and down in my seat. I was genuinely shocked.

    I bet he’s the only person who ever called you a liberal 🙂 pun intended.

    He just seemed to get so many things mixed up, such as the times of the gentiles… At the beginning I almost spit my coffee as he dismissed Ez38-39 saying he didn’t think of it as being that relevant. WOW!

    ‘you shall fall upon the mountains of Israel’
    ‘you shall fall in an open field’
    Both these descriptions appear in Ez39..v4+v5 . So there’s no problem there.

    I personally believe that the 10 kings are the 7th kingdom, and when subdued by ac, this becomes the 8th, but I agree with you Joel, in no way does God’s word indicate this is a revived Roman empire. The fact that the body of the beast is a leopard,points the reader to the middle East. I think Mr Ice avoided that connection purposely.

    I realise you were being graceful Joel, but I think it was irresponsible of him to say you were violating Gods word.

    To be honest I think he probably could see some cases you were making but did not want to concede, which is sad.

    I’ve done most of my study alone, so I’ve been grateful to be challenged on certain things, through your writings and programs, and it’s a joy after taking the time to dig to see as you say, things run smoothly.

    You simply cannot escape the fact that the spirit of the ac denies the Father and the Son, so you can hardly claim to be the very Father you’re denying. It makes no sense.

    Unfortunately for Mr Ice, Islam is the only dress that fits.

    Thank you Joel.

19. Thanks Linda. I appreciate the encouragement. Pray that some folks will see it and perhaps be impacted. Blessings!

20. Hi Joel,

    I got to see your dvd today, and I must say you really rattled Dr Ice! I especially think he stumbled over the section in Revelation ch17 talking of the Kingdoms “…five of whom are fallen, one is and the other is yet to come…” Ice is so inconsistent in this, unlike the Islamic antichrist theory that perfectly fits (“He who has ears let him hear what the Spirit says”).
    On that point I love that picture of the glove that you gave early on in the debate: the Islamic antichrist theory truly does “fit like a glove” so that Daniel ch2, Daniel ch 7 and Revelation 17 fit so beautifully! unlike a revived Roman Empire.

    As well, Joel I have to say that when I heard you putting forth your “scriptural case” (take note Dr Ice!)of an Islamic antichrist, you did it humbly, Christlike and with authority…made me think of when the people said of Jesus: “this one speaks with authority, not like the scribes and the pharisees” so I praise God that His Holy Spirit anointing was on you brother! You showed your heart, and your burden for the Body of Christ, which is so good when debating academic things…I’ve heard how Reggie Kelly says that this is what the Body of Christ needs…an emptying of itself, so all pride is taken away, Amen Reggie!

    Unfortunately Dr Ice did not come over gracious, and did not even do you the honour of reading your book before the debate??! You’ve gotta be kidding me man!
    Saying things like: “Joel’s view is not scriptural” and at the end of the debate saying: “He (you Joel) is violating scripture” is most unhelpful…

    You know, I find it kind of ironic, because as the debate showed there is a lot of “Common ground” between you and Tommy:
    Premillennial, anti- Replacement Theology, you both don’t see a Jewish antichrist etc…lets face it many within the Body of Christ stumble over these things alone! (I go to a church that is A-millennial, but I like to highlight Israel to them; they are precious brothers and sisters…)

    But I find, when guys are Pre-trib and Dispensational it doesn’t prepare our (the Church’s) hearts for as Reggie puts it making: “Jacob’s Trouble not Jacob’s problem”
    I know this wasn’t part of the debate but I have friends who love Israel, but cannot (will not) see that a future time of trouble is coming for Israel (your dvd “The Coming battle of Jerusalem” has helped me see the importance of these issues). Getting the balance (oh what a key word!) is so hard eschatologically, but bro, you come close to getting that balance, and I so appreciate it!
    However I digress, and just to say, great debate Joel, may the Lord open many eyes in the Body, even Dr Ice’s, as I would pray for him to humbly consider these things.
    To quote that great saint Oswald Chambers: “…I have never met a person I could despair of, or lose all hope for, after discerning what lies in me apart from the GRACE of God”

    I look forward to sharing your dvd with friends and “getting the word out” about the Islamic antichrist theory!

    Lord bless you Joel

    Paul

    England (Uk)

21. Hi Joel,

    Irvin Baxter has a program on TBN and he recently did a show on the US in the Bible. I haven’t ordered your debate yet, but perhaps this is covered? Baxter makes the case that the US is the eagle wings plucked off of the lion (Great Britain) in 1776. (Dan. 7:4). He then points out that the woman (Israel) is given two wings of a great eagle (United States protection) during the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. Daniel 7 mentions the eagle, but the eagle is not mentioned in Rev. 13, implying that the US is not part of the beast system with bear, leopard, and lion because it’s protecting Israel.

    Joel…I’ve been following your teachings on this subject and I agree with your view regarding Islam, but I am confused on this point. It does seem possible to me that the eagle here is the US. Baxter says the bear is Russia, Leopard is Germany, and Lion is Great Britain. Is it a coincidence that those nations share the same symbols as Babylon, Persia, and Greece? Thank You, James

22. James,

    I address this in my DVD, Where is the US in Bible Prophecy. In short, America is not the eagle of Revelation. The motif of the eagle represents the Lord, not the United States. It is used as such in both Deuteronomy and Exodus. For example; ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. (Exodus 19:4). Surely no one would say this is speaking about the US. It happened thousands of years before the US even existed. Likewise elsewhere, the Lord reveals Himself as the eagle: 11 “Like an eagle that stirs up its nest, that hovers over its young, He spread His wings and caught them, He carried them on His pinions. “The LORD alone guided him, and there was no foreign god with him. (Deut 32:11-12). Again, the Lord is the eagle not the US. Symbols in Revelation should be rooted in the Bible, not modern contemporary events. Why do some see Germany as the Leopard? It is not the symbol for Germany. Advocates of this view will say that Germany has a tank called the Leopard. That’s grasping at straws. Daniel 7 is simply a reiteration of Daniel 2. Those who argue otherwise do so by misinterpreting Daniel 7:12 and Daniel 7:17. Notice that the final beast is a combination of a Lion, Leopard and Bear. This is impossible if it is Germany, Russia and England. It is easy to see if it is Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece (Yavan). It is a Middle Eastern Empire.

    Sorry for my brevity. I hope this has helped.

    Blessings,
    Joel

23. Thank you Joel for your explanation. So if the eagle wings represent the Lord, how do you interpret the eagle wings that are plucked off of the lion in Dan. 7?

    I looked up Germany and the black eagle is it’s symbol, not the leopard.

    God Bless,

    James

24. Hi James,

    Symbolism in apocalyptic passages must always be taken case by case. Context determines meaning. In Daniel 7, it would seem to simply indicate speed and rapid mobility. Because we have the language of Israel being carried, lifted, and thus protected on eagles wings in a couple OT passages, it is likely to be the same referent if used again later, particularly if in a nearly identical manner. There is no rule however, that every biblical reference to eagles or eagles wings must be a reference to the Lord, particularly as in Daniel 7, where it is used in such a different context, namely of a pagan kingdom. I hope this helps.

    Blessings,
    Joel