Where is Magog, Meshech and Tubal?

As an addendum to one of my most recent articles, “Does Psalm 83 Describe the New Middle-East War?” the following post represents the base of support for the two maps included in the article. My first map highlights the invading nations of the Battle of Gog of Magog, wherein I place Magog, Meshech, Tubal, Gomer and Togarmah all in Asia Minor or modern day Turkey. The second map pictures my identification of the lands controlled by Assyria during the reign of King David, and the ministry of Asaph. (Note: This post has been updated.)

First, below is my map detailing the nations mentioned in Ezekiel 38 & 39’s oracle concerning the Battle of Gog of Magog:

Now below is a collection of maps from various Bible atlases, as well as other scholarly reference works, and a list of scholars, and prophecy teachers, wherein I find support for my position. The atlases which represent the most up-to-date scholarship are included first and the slightly older atlases follow. Note that the author of the critical blog post mentioned above places Magog, Meshech and Tubal all in Russia or Georgia, all well outside and north of modern day Turkey.

1.) IVP Atlas of Bible History

2.) The New Moody Atlas of the Bible

3.) The Holman Bible Atlas

4.) Zondervan Atlas of the Bible

5.) Harper Collins Atlas of Bible History

6.) ESV Bible Atlas

7.) Baker’s Bible Atlas

8.) The Macmillan Bible Atlas

9.) IVP New Bible Atlas

10.) The Oxford Bible Atlas says of Meshech and Tubal that they are, “regions in Asia Minor [Turkey].”

12.) The Zondervan Illustrated Bible Dictionary states, “Magog, possibly meaning ‘the land of Gog,’ was no doubt in Asia Minor [Turkey] and may refer to Lydia.”

13.) The IVP Bible Background Commentary lists Magog, Meshech, Tubal, and Togarmah as “sections or peoples in Asia Minor” [Turkey].

14.) The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary, under the entry for “Magog,” states, “It is clear that Lydia [Turkey] is meant, and that by ‘Magog,’ we must understand, ‘the land of Gog.’”

15.) The Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary places Magog in Anatolia, or modern-day Turkey.

16.) The New Bible Dictionary places both Meshech and Tubal in Turkey.

16.) The Catholic Encyclopedia states, “It seems more probable that . . . Magog should be identified with Lydia [Turkey]. On the other hand, as Mosoch and Thubal were nations belonging to Asia Minor, it would seem from the text of Ezechiel that Magog must be in that part of the world. Finally, others with Josephus identify Magog with Scythia, but in antiquity this name was used to designate vaguely any northern population.”

17.) Herodotus, a Greek historian who wrote roughly one hundred and fifty years after Ezekiel, never once mentions “Magog”, but does discuss the Scythian peoples quite extensively. If one agrees with Josephus that some or all of the Scythian tribes are actually Magogites, (as other contemporary historians such as Pliny or close contemporaries such as Hippolytus do not) then even Herodotus establishes the Turkish-Magog interpretation of Ezekiel 38,39. For after discussing the various theories for the origins of the Scythians, Herodotus expresses his preferred belief that they came from Turkey: “There is also another different story, now to be related, in which I am more inclined to put faith than in any other. It is that the wandering Scythian once dwelt in Asia [The Greeks of this time referred to Asia Minor simply as “Asia” thus modern day Turkey].” Thus, Herodotus placed the origin of the Scythians in Turkey. By Herodotus’ day however, the Scythians had begun their sweep north on either side of the Black Sea, but had barely entered into Russia. As historian Michael Kulikowski, Department Head of History at Penn State University, states, “Herodotus’ Scythians were to be found in a bit of modern Bulgaria and Romania, and across the grasslands of Moldova and Ukraine.” This point is essential: In Herodotus’ day, one hundred and fifty years after Ezekiel’s oracle, the Scythians had barely reached southern Russia. Herodotus’ record establishes that back in Ezekiel’s day, the Scythians still dwelt in Asia Minor, or modern day Turkey. Concerning Meshech and Tubal, Herodotus, also identified them with a people named the Sarmatians and Mushovites who lived at that time in the ancient province of Pontus in northern Asia Minor, SE of the Black Sea [Histories IV], again pointing to modern Turkey. (*For the importance concerning how Ezekiel would have understood the names of his own prophecy, see the note below in bold.)

18.) Hippolytus of Rome, one of the most important Christian theologians of the third century, in his Chronicon, connected Magog to the Galatians in Asia Minor, modern-day Turkey.

19.) Pliny the Elder a first-century Roman military commander, author, naturalist, and philosopher placed Magog on the border of Syria and modern day Turkey.

20.) Maimonides, also known as Rambam, the revered Jewish sage, in Hichot Terumot, also identified Magog as being on the border of modern day Turkey.

21.) Old Testament scholar Ralph Alexander, in the Expositor’s Bible Commentary says, “Meshech and Tubal refer to areas in eastern Turkey, southwest of Russia and northwest of Iran.”

22.) Old Testament scholar Daniel I. Block, in the New International Commentary on Ezekiel, says, “It seems best to interpret Magog as a contraction of an original māt Gūgi, ‘land of Gog,’ and to see here a reference to the territory of Lydia in western Anatolia [Turkey].”

23.) Scholar and historian Edwin Yamauchi places both Meshech and TUbal in modern day Turkey.

24.) Pastor, author and well-known prophecy teacher Mark Hitchcock places Meshech and Tubal in modern day Turkey.

25.) According to Nathan Jones of Lamb and Lion Ministries: “Meshech + Tubal + Gomer + Beth-togarmah = Turkey (and possibly Azerbaijan, Armenia).” But oddly, Jones removes Magog from Russia: “Magog = Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan (and possibly Afghanistan).” See Map Below:

26.) Tim Lahaye and Ed Hindson in their Encyclopedia of Popular Bible Prophecies, also place both Meshech and Tubal in Turkey.

27.) Ron Rhodes, author and teacher in his book, Northern Storm Rising also places Meshech and Tubal in Turkey.

28.) Likewise Dr. Thomas Ice, executive director of the Pre-Trib Research Center says, “Some Bible teachers in the past have taught that Meshech is a reference to Moscow and thus refers to Russia. This is the view of The Scofield Reference Bible, Harry Rimmer and Hal Lindsey… The identification of Meshech with Moscow is merely based upon a similarity of sound. There is not real historical basis to support such a view, therefore, it must be rejected.” Ice thus agrees with Hitchcock and places Meshech and Tubal in Turkey: “The historical record, as was the case with Meshech, is that Tubal and his descendants immigrated to the area southeast of the Black Sea in what is modern day Turkey. Meshech and Tubal clearly provide the population base for the country we now call Turkey.”

29.) Chuck Missler in his article, “Meshech-Tubal Tensions with Syria” also places Meshech and Tubal in modern day Turkey.

30.) Assyrian texts & monuments locate Meshech (Mushku) and Tubal (Tabal) in Anatolia (W.Turkey), the areas that became known as Phrygia and Cappadocia.

Sources which DO NOT support an Ezekielian understanding of Magog as Russia, but which are commonly cited to the contrary:

The following three claims are floating around the internet and have been repeated many times, obviously without anyone ever checking the original sources:

1.) Hesiod: The first claim is that Hesiod, in the 7th Century B.C. linked Magog to the Scythians and southern Russia. This however is entirely inaccurate. Hesiod mentions Magog as the real name of Prometheus who lived “near the Caucasus”. Nothing of the Scythians or Russia is ever mentioned by Hesiod in regard to Magog. This vague mythological reference to Prometheus who did not live “in the Caucasus” rather “near the Caucasus” (The mountain range which separates Georgia and Azerbaijan from Russia.) is simply specific enough, nor a source that Bible students would want to establish doctrine upon. If one considers a map of the Caucasus, it is clearly also “near Turkey” as well.

2.) Philo: The second claim is that Philo in the first century, linked Magog to Russia. This also is a fabricated claim. In all of the works of Philo, he never mentions Magog. There is a work called Pseudo-Philo, which mentions Magog, but only as a descendant of Noah. Nowhere does Pseudo-Philo ever make any connection between Magog and Russia, or any other location for that matter.

3.) Herodotus and the “Gargarians” (or Gargareans). The third claim is that Herodotus makes references to a people called the Gargarians who lived in or near Russia. No such reference exists. Herodotus does make two references to a people called “Gandarians” but they are said to have lived in “Asia” which was the term Herodtus used to refer to Asia Minor, or modern day Turkey. Other than this, and perhaps where this claim is originally derived, is a statement from Strabo, a Greek historian, geographer and philosopher who lived roughly six hundred years after Herodotus. Strabo spoke of an all male tribe called the Gargaeans who would once a year mate with the Amazons (a tribe of all women). The two lived on the south of the Caucasian mountains in what would be Turkey, Georgia or Azerbaijan. Again, Strabo lived roughly six hundred years after Ezekiel. Once more, despite its obviously mythological nature, this story does nothing to establish an Ezekielian understanding of Magog as Russia.

(I challenge anyone to show me any quote from Hesiod that links Magog to the Scythians or from Philo that connects Magog to Russia or from Herodotus that speaks of the “Garagians”. Despite these claims being repeated within numerous works and especially all over the Internet, they simply do not exist in the original sources.)

Now, I am quite sure that despite the numerous references provided here, some who have long held to the notion that Magog represents Russia will just ignore all of these and simply cite other works and scholars who argue or who have argued that Gog / Magog correlate to Russian. Of course, this debate is not new. As far back as 1706, Matthew Henry, in his classic Bible commentary, acknowledged this precise difference of opinion among fellow scholars and believers:

“Some think they find them [Gog and Magog] afar off, in Scythia, Tartary, and Russia. Others think they find them nearer the land of Israel, in Syria, and Asia the Less [Turkey].”

When one surveys the many efforts to equate Magog with Russia, they almost universally follow the method which attempts to track the lineage, intermingling and migration patterns of the sons of Magog throughout the centuries. This often becomes chaotic, produces a wide-range of views, and is somewhat impossible for the lay-student to wade through all of the numerous opinions down throughout the centuries. As an example of how absurd this method can become: if one traces the bloodlines and migration patterns of the Gomerites, they eventually become the Celts who came to settle Ireland, England, Scotland etc. Yet how many books have we seen that predict an Irish invasion of Israel? * This next point is absolutely essential: The historical-grammatical method does not seek to understand the broad historical migration-bloodlines-intermixing and so forth of various peoples. The historical-grammatical method simply seeks to understand how Ezekiel the prophet would have understood the terms Magog, Meshech and Tubal, etc. This would have been formed through the location of these peoples during Ezekiel’s day as well the Table of Nations found in Genesis 10 & 11, which would have informed any Torah-literate Jew of that day. Simply stated, Ezekiel would have understood Magog to be equated with Asia Minor in the region of modern day Turkey.

Of course, my purpose is not to attempt to settle the debate here in a brief blog post. In my forthcoming book Mideast Beast: The Scriptural Case For an Islamic Antichrist, I take great pains to thoroughly address the various arguments that surround these passages, bringing students of Scripture up to date with modern Biblical scholarship.


Now to the issue of what lands the Assyrians occupied during the reign of King David and ministry of Asaph when Psalm 83 was written. In the previously referenced blog post, the author took issue with my claim that the Assyria of this period included a large segment of modern day Turkey. The author posted a single map from the internet which purports to show Assyria in 900 B.C. The problem of course is that this period is at least 65 years after Psalm 83 was written. King David reigned, and Asaph ministered from roughly 1020-1005 B.C. to 980-965 B.C. as any Bible commentary will verify. Because I attempt to interpret Psalm 83 through the “historical-grammatical” method as is practiced by all conservative exegetes, I identify the Assyria of Asaph’s day, not the Assyria of 70 years later, etc. As such, the map I included in my article is accurate whereas the map used by my critic is not relevant. The territory of Assyria during King David’s reign included a large section of modern day Turkey. In fact, more of Turkey was included in the region under Assyrian vassalage than was Syria. For a brief period around 900 B.C. the Assyrian territory shrunk back, but very quickly returned to the Mediterranean and only expanded westward from there. Any effort to exclude the nation of Turkey from the list of nations in Psalm 83 is simply not in accordance with the historical record. See map below of the expansion of the Assyrian Empire. The black line represents the geographic borders of the modern day nation of Turkey.

The New Moody Atlas of the Bible

For those who seek to study the issue of Psalm 83 further, I would also recommend Mark Hitchcock’s newest book, Middle East Burning as well as Dr. Thomas Ice’s series of articles below.

(Note: It is important to state that my critique of the popular, multiple-war, Psalm 83 theory is not directed personally toward author Bill Salus, who has been the primary instrument to popularize this theory. Bill is a gentleman, a good brother, and has always represented Christ well in all of my personal interactions with him.)

Dr. Ice: Consistent Biblical Futurism (Part 10)

Dr. Ice: Consistent Biblical Futurism (Part 11)

Dr. Ice: Consistent Biblical Futurism (Part 12)

Dr. Ice: Consistent Biblical Futurism (Part 13)

My book will be available from this site in April. As always, all I ask is that lovers of the Scriptures—genuine Bereans, simply take the time to consider the various arguments and arrive at their conclusions through their love for truth and the Scriptures, rather than based on what their particular “team” has traditionally taught. I am convinced that too many within the Body of Christ forget that we are all on the same team. With regard to the end times, we all see through a glass darkly and when all is said and done, we will all no doubt be wrong on some points, but Jesus promises to reveal the truth to those who humbly seek it. After the Messiah comes, then we will all agree on all things. For now, we are to be faithful men and women who watch and pray, as we together long for the revealing of our great King and Savior Jesus Christ:

The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. —1 Peter 4:7-8

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  • Alexander Zephyr
    Posted at 07:56h, 24 April

    Retuning back to Psalm 83 identification of the nations. Your explanation of why Egypt will not be involved is only partial(Hagar-matriarch). Real reason in Daniel 11:42! Assur is identified wrongly. And so is Edom. Determining factor is preceding wars between two kings(North and South) of Daniel. You wish to know details, please E-male me. Respectfully,
    Alexander Zephyr

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  • Robert Harrington
    Posted at 02:08h, 19 January

    An Islamic anti-Christ. Ok, let’s agree for the moment that the anti-Christ comes from Islam, but does that mean he come from Turkey or the area of Turkey? What do we do with the holy roman empire, with the feet and toes of Nebuchadnezzar’s image of the last great world empire. The holy roman empire is both political and religious. This implies the anti-Christ would come from the old roman empire. Did the old roman empire include parts of ‘Turkey’ or is this a ‘european’ man who has converted to Islam which would make him muslim? or do we know? Obviously we will not know for certain until he steps into the third temple and stops the sacrifices.

  • Brokenstriker
    Posted at 19:06h, 02 March

    @Robert Harrington – I think you would find Ellis Skoffield’s book, The False Prohet, enlightening ref. your question from Jan 19th 2015. It is available as a free download from this website: http://www.ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFP-2Ed.pdf

    I believe he answers your questions about an Islamic anti-Christ. I haven’t read a more impactful book in my life aside from the Bible.

    Posted at 06:35h, 09 April


    I would on balance the scriptures speak of the antichrist being from Persia, or the king of the north, as Daniel 11 says. One could argue that the descendants of these people ventured out and became Persia on/or Russia, as in the prince of Rosh.

    I have just written down all passages in the Old Testament which speak of the end times. They repeat a story that has never been seen before:

    The king of the north shall invade a peaceful Israel to start the day of the Lord.
    Israel is desolated.

    42 months later Armageddon happens with the rapture.

    I have made three new never seen before discoveries and would love feedback.. I will email for free:



    Alan Brooks

    Moorpark ca
    805 501 6382

    Posted at 06:40h, 09 April

    Would love help with a forward, or publishing.. AB

    THE LOOP in EZEKIEL 7-11 compared with the loop in Ezekiel 13-17:

    (EZEKIEL 13)
    False prophets say PEACE.

    (EZEKIEL 14)
    Judgments upon JERUSALEM: SWORD and FAMINE.

    (EZEKIEL 15 and 16)
    The Lord will give up he inhabitants of JERUSALEM. It will be DESOLATE. JERUSALEM: Her lovers will burn her and leave her naked.

    (EZEKIEL 17)
    From the highest BRANCH, A twig is placed on a HIGH MOUNTAIN.
    (Jesus comes back and stands on a high mountain. Zech 14:4)

    AMAZINGLY, EZEKIEL 7-11 repeats this same end time story:

    Paul said the day of the Lord starts when people say peace. It is a destruction.

    (EZEKIEL 7)
    Behold THE DAY…. IT has come.
    They will seek PEACE, but not find it.
    DESTRUCTION comes to Israel.
    I will bring the worst of the GENTILES.
    Those who survive will FLEE or ESCAPE to the mountains.
    The invaders will DEFILE my secret place.

    (EZEKIEL 8)
    ABOMINATIONS in the temple.
    25 people pray to the EAST towards Mecca.

    (EZEKIEL 9)
    Put a MARK on the FOREHEADS of the faithful
    Jews. Slay all those who do not have that mark.

    (EZEKIEL 10)
    The glory of the Lord departs from the temple in

    (EZEKIEL 11)
    The glory stands on a MOUNTAIN to
    the EAST of JERUSALEM.

    Do you see how the elements of what Jesus and Paul predicted are here? Paul said the day is a destruction when people say peace. We see above those very words, right? Jesus predicted that when you see the worst gentile who ever lived, (the antichrist) Israel should flee to the mountains. What do you know? That same prediction is here also! What did Jesus say the antichrist would do? He will go into the temple and defile it by setting up the abomination that causes desolation.
    What act will the antichrist do next? He will set up the abomination in the temple, right?

    Ezekiel 8, the very next chapter, uses that very word, “abomination!” and “25 people pray towards the east.” (I expect that the antichrist will be Muslim, and so what else does Ezekiel say these defiling people will do? He says they will pray facing away from Jerusalem, which is towards Mecca!)

    Ezekiel 9 goes on to state that after the abomination in the temple, and after the antichrist has ruled for 3 ½ years, as God’s wrath is about to hit, the Jews are marked on their foreheads to protect them from said wrath.
    (Rev 7 has this same prediction: 144,000 Jews are marked on their FOREHEADS as God’s wrath is about to hit.)

    Ezekiel 10 and 11:
    Then what would we expect to happen as God’s wrath hits? We would expect the Lord to return and land on a mountain east of Jerusalem. And lo and behold, that’s EXACTLY what this progression says will happen here! The glory of God (Jesus, the King of Glory) will come back and land on a mountain east of Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:4 has this exact same prediction about the returning Lord.

    Thus, in Ezekiel chapters 7-11, we see an exact match with what Jesus, Zechariah and Paul said would take place at the last 3-½ years of time:

    1 As people say Peace-a destruction comes. (1 Thess 5:3)
    2 The Gentile antichrist will invade Israel. (Matt 24:15)
    3 Israel will Flee! (Matt 24)
    4 The antichrist will enter the temple and set up the
    abomination. There 25 men will pray to the east.
    (towards Mecca?)
    5 This will start a 42 month period (3 ½ years) of the
    greatest distress the world has ever known. After that
    distress, (not said here-but we know it will take place.)
    6 Then the sun, moon and stars will be darkened as the
    Lord comes back in the air with a trumpet. (Matt 24)
    7 The Lord comes back and stands on a mountain.
    (Zech 14:4)

    Jesus said:
    “When you see the antichrist and his armies surrounding Israel, then FLEE! Paul said the day is destruction when people say PEACE! Do you see those elements here in Ezekiel 7-11? Yes!
    What is the Antichrist predicted to do? Does Ezekiel match?

    He will defile the secret place! CHECK!
    He will set up the abomination.(Matt 24:15) CHECK!
    He will cause Israel to Flee! (Matt 24:15) CHECK!
    He will pray to the east (MECCA!) CHECK!
    He will cause “destruction. “ (1 Thess 5) CHECK!
    At the end of time, Jews are marked. (Rev 7:4) CHECK!
    Then the Lord will come back. (Matt 24) CHECK!

    Ezekiel 7-11 is therefore an amazing prediction about the end of time, and it also matches Ez 38, 39 and they BOTH describe how the Antichrist, the king of the north, and his SHIA Muslim

    Posted at 16:07h, 29 September

    Joel what do you think about military Russian presence in Syria?

    And what about Putin’s influence as a Assad’s counselor?

    Netanyahu recently met a conference with the Russian leader and Obama also.

    Could be Russian’s Putin to attack Israel, in despite of his great influence and supplier financial military to the nations, like Iran, Syria and Hezbollah?

    Could be Putin a leader of coalition invasion of Israel related at book of Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39?

    Thank you very much, God bless you at all.

    Eduardo Gomes

  • Joel
    Posted at 19:39h, 29 September

    Hi Eduardo. I will do a show on this tonight and play it hopefully next week.

  • Tom Kovach
    Posted at 18:53h, 06 October

    In my research, I stumbled upon an interesting fact that dovetails with your findings.

    The sacking of Jerusalem in AD 70, while credited to the Romans, was actually done by a division of mercenary Turks that were hired by the Romans. Without looking up my notes (I’m at my day job now, and thus don’t have access), I believe the division was called Fulminatus (Thunder).

    So, it only makes sense that God would draw in the Turks, so that He can exact His vengeance.

  • Joel
    Posted at 20:23h, 06 October


    The Turks had not moved to this region yet. The soldiers were primarily Syrians and Arabs. I detail this in some detail in Mideast Beast.


  • Mark A. Lorence
    Posted at 19:54h, 09 October

    In Gods War on Terror, you and Mr Shoebat make some amazing statements about the bible and “666”. If the translation as your books claims could be “bismallah”….wouldn’t that be one of the most revealing truths regarding the end times, the anti-Christ and the dangers of Islam? Not to mention one of the most prophetic accuracies. Other than your book with Walid, I’ve never heard or read more discussion. I’m just wondering if you could address that point?

    With much appreciation for all you do. God bless and stay safe.


  • Joel
    Posted at 20:26h, 09 October

    Hi Mark,

    There are significant historical and other problems with the bismillah claim. I have never agreed with it. In that book, when Walid and I disagreed, we went with his views. I wrote most of the remainder of the chapter however.

  • Mark Lorence
    Posted at 17:24h, 12 October

    Thx Joel for the reply concerning “666”. Is there a chance you could expand on the historical and other problems you mentioned having with the interpretation? I will understand if this is not the forum for your explanation.

    Thx again for all you are doing.


  • Joel
    Posted at 19:21h, 12 October

    Briefly, the most common kind of early Greek script used in the New Testament documents is Koine and Uncial. Walid’s theory only works with koine. But this was not used in the earliest documents. So Walid’s theory only works with Greek that was used four hundred years after the NT was first written. In the earliest documents is not like “666” (which might look similar to some Arabic) but rather “SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY SIX.” No one would have confused that with Arabic. I hope that makes sense.

  • Craig C. White
    Posted at 07:54h, 21 January

    If Meshech and Tubal are provinces in Turkey then the chief Prince of Meshech and Tubal is the primary governor of Turkey. In Ezekiel chapter 39 the primary governor of Turkey leads the battle of Armageddon. If the Antichrist leads the battle of Armageddon then the primary governor of Turkey is the Antichrist. We should all be alarmed by the actions and intentions of Turkish President Erdogan.

  • Joel
    Posted at 12:22h, 21 January

    However, Daniel 8 says that the prominent horn of the Javan is first broken off.

  • Cameron
    Posted at 22:56h, 02 February

    Question though, it mentions the ‘king of Greece’ in Daniel 8… but then it references the certain horn that is the 1st king…Could the ‘king of Greece’(Yavan/Ionia/Western Turkey) be referencing the end time religion, while the first horn represents the religion’s founder?

    Could Daniel 8 simply be highlighting the religious ‘side’ of the Antichrist’s rule, as other chapters speak of the political side? The Persian’s Zoroastrianism was present in Daniel’s day and in power through about 650ish AD, where Islam crushed it…Islam was a major player in the area until the Ottomans were defeated and their power was dispersed. It seems to me, that Daniel received the similar vision of the Statue, but from a political point of view, since it was Babylon/Israel centered. Both concerned the time of the end.

    v22, “The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.”

    If that’s the case, tracing the beast from the religious perspective, then the four major Islamic powerhouses of the Middle East would seem to fit into place being these 4 kingdoms; Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Turkey? Especially tying in the goat as titled, ‘the king of Greece,’ (Yavan, aka Ionia, Pergamum, Western Turkey…) the religion is still strongly represented in these 4 power blocks, but all of them behave slightly differently in it and lack the cohesion/power that a solid Islamic state would have represented as in the past.

    Also, it doesn’t all seem to be during the final week of years because it talks about a king rising then falling, and empires emerge from it, that would seem to indicate a larger amount of time to get major players on the scene. It also says v23 “in the latter part of their reign”, indicating that they’ve been around for a little while, and at the end, of their end(as it were), the antichrist arises.

    Granted, there are still some holes in this, but I think it rings a little closer to the truth then the Greek Empire overtaking the Persians then dividing into the 4 other kingdoms.

    Thoughts? or am I just taking crazy pills?

  • Joel
    Posted at 01:29h, 03 February

    The prophecy is not pan-historical. Without elaborating on the many problems with historicism, I hold to a futurist perspective.

  • Cameron
    Posted at 18:20h, 03 February

    I know there are problems with taking a historical view…but it looks like the 8th empire of revelation, tying in with the statue of Daniel is rising in the middle east.

    If Daniel 8 is a solely in the future, and all to be done in the future…wouldn’t that mean than, that whatever were seeing now, there will still be 4 kingdoms that split from this rising one? That doesn’t seem to line up with the other prophecies that seem to be clicking into place right now.

    Either way, all the facts have to line up, and at some point all the prophecies have to come about. Is it possible that the ‘futurist’ perspective may in fact be our present?

  • Chuck
    Posted at 04:23h, 16 July

    Ankara is located roughly where magog is in several of these maps, which is interesting.

    Do you assign any prophetic significance to the fact that Jesus called pergamum the seat of Satan? Or is this only a historical reference?


  • Joel
    Posted at 12:06h, 16 July

    Personally, I see it as more of a historical reference.

  • Pieter Brink
    Posted at 13:32h, 31 July

    thanks for a complete eyeopener! The elephant in the room, Islam and the Islamic Beast! Everybody concerned with the Pope and HRE reborn but for 1500 yrs nobody noticed this elephant chopping heads, conquering land ruling with sharia two horns of religion and politics, nice good lamb of good Muslims! Please keep on keeping on brother! Warm Regards!
    Pieter Brink
    South Africa

  • Joseph O'Neal
    Posted at 17:18h, 08 August

    I have read prophecy since I was a young boy. I think that the Psalm 83 war is an interesting theory, although more study/thought is needed. My question, however, is regarding Russia.

    Is it your contention that Russia is Rosh, or rather that Russia is not mentioned in the Ezekiel 38-39 passage and thus, are not part of that war? Given that:

    1) Russia is the nation who arms so much of the the Middle East, and indeed, the other nations mentioned in Ezekiel
    2) Russia is firmly planted in Syria with permanent bases with no intention of leaving
    3) Russia has treaties in place with Iran and Syria that could easily involve them in conflict
    4) Israel’s oil find in the Golan and natural gas in the Med potentially threatens their economic blackmail of Europe. Especially since Russia currently uses the geographical position of Syria to block an alternate pipeline for oil and natural gas supplies to Europe from the Middle East, competing with the current pipeline from Russia.
    5) Russia appears to be sending more arms than is necessary to Syria, and some intelligence points to the fact that the extras are being sent to arm Hezbollah
    6) They are a failing country with a diminishing population, poor economy, but a big military that may want to take one more calculated opportunity to be relevant on the historical stage

    Is it your contention that Russia not going to be involved in this conflict?

    It seems that if a war broke out right now, whether it is due to ISIS/ISIL, Hezbollah/Hamas, Syria, bombing the Iranian reactor and nuclear program (where there are Russian technical experts) with an Iranian dictated response from Hamas/Hezbollah, or some or all of these at once, that whether they wanted to be involved or not, the “hook would be in the jaw” and drag Russia in. This is how I have always understood it.

    I was just curious. Not upset at all. Much of prophetic interpretation will be reconsidered by all of us who read/taught/wrote about it as we watch it unfold from heaven, anyway. Thank you for even taking the time to read this blather of mine.

  • Nikki Helmeczi Love Abbott
    Posted at 01:23h, 07 April

    been a minute since anyone has posted here.. well we the U.S just sent 59 tomahawks into Syria today and I was looking into where they struck and ran across this map. Looks like this website was updated yesterday! any reactions about today’s events? and or information about the locations that were struck today and if they have biblical significance.? I would assume so.. but we are getting spotty news these days.. and generally the news does not discuss the Bible. thanks.

  • Dries Dippenaar
    Posted at 11:27h, 21 May

    There does appear to be an obsession with Russia and the endtimes, especially from western commentators. I do not think Russia has any ambitions outside Russia – they have a massive piece of sparsely populated land, poor economy, so what would or could they wish to expand toward. The points raised by Joseph would be more realistic and true if words like Russia is replaced with USA, and Syria with Saudi Arabia. Then we have all the expansionist ambitions in one basket.. Not most, but all of present day military disruption in the middle east could have been prevented if Western military and political ambitions were contained. If I read it correctly US & UK military sales and aid to Saudi’s alone read something like R350 Billion – I dont think any country in the world could even remotely match that. Before you label me, I am a reborn Christian, I love the Lord , but am of the opinion that it all started in the middle east, and that’s where its all going to end.

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