The Underground Episode 67: Is Historical Jerusalem the Harlot Babylon?

Share:
Share This:

33 Responses

  1. An excellent point regarding Jeremiah’s lamenting over Jerusalem’s destruction Joel. Before one even goes into a ‘deep’ study, the notion of the angels rejoicing over Jerusalem’s destruction is instinctively at odds with God’s love for the city expressed in scripture.

    The a c is called the rod of God’s anger, not the weapon of his eternal destruction.
    Looking forward to next episode.

  2. Love it bro! This type of examination & of comparing scripture with scripture in their argument is very helpful & necessary to the one who wants to defend their position Biblically against these positions of error. I think God can, & will, use humble men who love Him & His Word/Heart to steadily turn the tide of all the new, trendy, intellectual positions of preterism/historicism one person at a time through a thorough, humble & prepared defending of judeo-centric premillennial futurism, & you’re equipping the saints for the task through this type stuff right here. Keep it up, keep it coming, stay humble & keep looking up! Blessings in Jesus!

  3. Excellent video, Joel!! Keep speaking up with clarity on the heart of the Father for His people, Israel. Bless you.

  4. Tishri 1, 2020 is the day the order will go forth to restore and build Jerusalem, including the temple on the temple mount. After that day there will be much to reveal.

  5. Hello Joel,

    I’m halfway through your book so it seems you are saying Mecca is the whore. I’m also reading a book by Mark Davidson called Iran’s Great Invasion. Mr. Davidson thus far has given mention to you favorably and says that the next prophetic event will be Iran’s invasion of the entire middle east, including south towards Saudi Arabia. How do you view Mr. Davidson’s predictions? Would you agree this is likely the next event on the prophetic calendar? Will Mecca just have a change in landlord (Sunni to Shia)?

  6. Hi David,

    I have not yet read Mark’s book, but I am looking forward to it. I do agree that Daniel 8 very well may be the next major prophetic event to unfold in the region. To some measure, we could say it is already presently unfolding. To the degree that we know exactly what that will look like and the various specifics, I tend to be a bit more cautious than Mark, but I think I do generally agree with him here and think I do think folks should carefully consider his perspective for sure.

  7. Hi Joel,

    I was privileged to read the advance copy of Mark Davidson’s book, “Iran’s Great Invasion” based upon his research of what he believes is the “second sign post” in his four sign post theory from his other book, “Daniel Revisited” leading up to the revealing of the biblical anti-christ. It is very reasonably priced book which is a narrative, fictionalized format making for a quick read. I found it very compelling and current as it relates to global events as we look out over the prophetic horizion regarding Iran.. This small book which lends itself to a serial book set for his other sign posts makes for a good start for those who are beginning to look at biblical prophecy being relevant to them and their lives, but overwhelmed at where to start. Prophecy is daunting for many who have not studied it and are intimidated by it, and this could be helpful to them. It is biblically based, but not over anyone’s head. I enjoyed the book.

    I love you newr book, “Mystery Babylon” as well. I think we have in both books an appetizer (Mark’s) and a main entree’ (yours) for biblical prophecy connoisseurs.

    Blessings!

  8. Isaiah 50:1
    This is what the LORD says: “Where is your mother’s certificate of divorce with which I sent her away?” Doesn’t His question imply that there is no certificate because God has never rejected his people ? That’s what it looks like to me.
    God bless

  9. Joel, a very good presentation. If you have not read Dr. Ken Johnson’s translation of the Book of Gad, the Seer, you should. In approximately 1,000 BC King David’s Seer, Gad, dealt with the issue of replacement theology. It is a very interesting real. it is not long.
    I agree with you on the Islamic Antichrist. It is pretty clear he will be an Assyria, from what was Assyria or descended from the Assyrians.

  10. I really appreciate the heart-felt appeal for God’s love for the city upon which He has placed His name. Jerusalem has another 1000 years to look forward to, and she will be called YHVH Is There! (Ezek 48:35) May we see it in our generation!

  11. Hi Joel, I have an unrelated question but cannot find another place to post it. Do you have a place to post general questions on prophecy?
    thanks

  12. Hi Joel!

    Do you think there is any correlation or significance to Jerusalem described as an adulterous wife in Ezekiel 16, Jesus’ lament for Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37, the two witnesses of Revelation 11:7-8 lying exposed on the streets of Jerusalem (the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt), and Mystery Babylon being called also “that great city…”?
    Any importance of Jerusalem being home to the Dome of the Rock and Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which coincidentally has recently restored what they claim to be the tomb of Jesus?

  13. Hi Penelope,

    I address most of this in the book. Ezekiel 16 ends with the Lords plans to restore Jerusalem, despite her unfaithfulness. Babylon however is destroyed forever.

  14. Hi Lynne,

    I’m presently in Iraq. You may post any questions you have here. I am not always able to answer, but try to when I am able. Thanks much for your understanding.

    Blessings!
    Joel

  15. Thanks Joel,
    I certainly do not need an answer quickly. So thankful for your ministry in the Middle East. We are praying for you, the people you will be working with and also your wife and family while you are away.
    My question is concerning the “restrainer” and “the man of lawlessness” in II Thess. 2. I have only heard one interpretation–that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, and He will be removed at the rapture since He dwells in believers. The man of lawlessness is the Antichrist, thus the Antichrist will not be revealed until after the rapture. Not sure if I agree with that. But I would like to hear your interpretation and reasoning behind it simply because is I appreciate your very careful exegesis when it comes to prophecy. I will be teaching II Thess. in the near future and would like to be able to handle this scripture rightly.
    Blessings,
    Lynne

  16. Hi Joel

    I was looking at the word for ‘sacrifice’ in Daniel 8 and Daniel 11 and comparing this to Daniel 9:27 when looking at the terminology for a different study, Daniel 8/11 refers to the daily sacrifice where the word ‘sacrifice’ includes the daily sin offering, whereas Daniel 9:27s, the term ‘sacrifice’ has an equivalent term as the passover sacrifice in Exo/Lev, and the wording does not include ‘daily’. Do many authors hold to an interpretation that the day that the AC will ‘put a stop to the sacrifice’ will fall on passover, leading to more evidence that the start of the tribulation will fall 3.5 years earlier, i.e. on one of the Sept/Oct feasts?

    regards

    Ryan

  17. Joel,
    I would like to comment on your response to Penelope, which seems to suggest that present day Jerusalem cannot be .Mystery Babylon because one has a very bright future while the other’s is very dark and foreboding.. Yet aren’t there two distinct and completely contradictory Jerusalems ,which even the plural nature of the Hebrew name implies?
    Isn’t present day Jerusalem represented in allegory, as Hagar, who is permanently excluded from the camp of Abraham and by extension, the blessing which God has given him?
    I’ll admit that every possible candidate for the city of ill repute seems to have major theological problems but I guess that is why God has said:
    It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.
    Be blessed in all things Joel.
    Marcus

  18. Excellent teaching Joel! I especially appreciate you expounding on what the New Covenant is, and that it hasn’t been fulfilled as of yet.

    I would like to make an important point though. And that was in regards to your discussion on God divorcing Israel. While it is true that God did not divorce the southern kingdom of Judah, Jeremiah 3 clearly outlines God’s divorce from the House of Israel (the northern 10 tribes).

    8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

    Not only is this a critical point, but it also explains why Jesus said he was sent to the House of Israel, when clearly they had already been scattered among the nations by the time He had arrived on the scene. I won’t comment more on this now, but there is so much here to unpack and understand.

    Thanks again.

  19. Joel I’ll ‘try’ not to post you anything else, but thought you may be personally interested in this piece about micheal Flynn.

    Erdogan must be gutted he’s gone, it would seem Flyn discussed whisking Gullen to Turkey without following any legalities. You were so right about calling him out.

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/former-trump-adviser-turkish-officials-discussed-removal-of-gulen-from-us-without-extradition-report.aspx?pageID=517&nID=111245&NewsCatID=358

  20. Hello Joel,

    For another view, Alan Kurschner currently has a two part teaching on “Why Michael is the Restrainer”.

    Have fun at the prophecy conference

    BJ & Alisa

  21. I’ve read both “When a Jew rules the World” and “Islamic Anti-Christ” and I am very intrigued by the idea of a Muslim/Islamic anti-Christ. I know Joel and Walid Shoebat have considered Erdogan as a potential candidate, however, I’d be curious to know what they think of Assad as a potential candidate…2 curious things stand out to me about Assad: 1. He was born on September 11 (potential significance of astral signs on September 11 3 BC with regard to Jesus’ birth) and 2. He will be 62 (age of king Darius when he was made king) in 2027 which I personally think may be a potential year for the rise of the anti-Christ/the desolation. Thoughts?

  22. Hi Michal,

    The Antichrist has yet to be revealed in my opinion. The Lord will make it clear at the proper time.

  23. I’ve heard people claim that Jeremiah 3 does not mean what it clearly says. And as you yourself explain in your video, when the text is clear, there is no reason to assume it is metaphorical versus literal.

    But the greater proof is with the Apostle Paul, who in Romans 7, expounds upon this divorce of the House of Israel, and by extension the Gentiles. He explains that the Law (the Torah) kept them from being married again to God as long as God lived, but with His (Jesus’) death, they were no longer called an adulteress, but could be married to another.

    This is how the Messiah was able to reconcile the House of Israel (the lost sheep as He refers to them) to Himself. God had to die, freeing the House of Israel to marry again.

    This is the very reason we have the Marriage Supper of the Lamb revealed to us in Revelation. Yeshua (Jesus) is going to marry ALL of Israel again.

    This is the great mystery that Paul referred to in his letters. In fact, rabbis have struggled with this question about how God would be able to bring the northern 10 tribes back when He divorced them because they knew he couldn’t according to the Law. Some rabbis even suggest the 10 tribes are lost forever because of this issue. And Satan must have rejoiced when God divorced the House of Israel, because he probably thought he had God boxed in a corner. But God had the Way to get it accomplished. Because Jesus is the Way, the truth, and the light.

    The real story of why Messiah had to die, when people truly understand it, puts ALL the pieces together, from the Old Testament to the New, and clarifies many of the enigmatic passages throughout both that refer to the great plan of God and how He will restore all 12 tribes in the land when He sets up the Kingdom of God on earth.

  24. Gary,

    At least one caveat is that you mistakenly equate Israel with the Gentiles. Jeremiah 3 certainly does not do this. Instead, it appeals to both Israel and Judah and calls them to repentance, to faithfulness, and to Himself. Certainly many of Israel have been lost among the Gentiles, it is a categorical mistake which Paul never makes to equate the gentiles with Israel. While the restoration of Israel and Judah was already partially underway in the first century, it is true that its ultimate eschatological fulfillment will take place when Messiah returns. That said, be very wary of the excessive assumptions and historical errors of the two-house movement.

  25. Hi Joel, perhaps my comment that follows may seem a bit simplistic but, Could it be that the New Jerusalem that descends from Heaven in Revelation 21 will replace the current earthly Jerusalem, therefore being the “restored” Jerusalem? This may explain why Jerusalem is never destroyed as Babylon is….

  26. Hi Joel. I apologize for the confusion. But it is God who equates Israel with the gentiles by dispersing them among the gentiles and labeling them “not my people”. They, in effect, became gentiles to God. But that was His plan all along. Israel failed to live up to its purpose to take the truth of the one true God to all the world so God had to do it for them. That does not mean He has forgotten them and will not fulfill His promise to Abraham. On the contrary, as you point out in your video, the New Covenant is the restoration of the two Houses of Israel back together again in the land.

    It also sheds light on why Paul was so committed to taking the Gospel to the gentiles, since he understood quite well that his brethren from the 10 tribes (the lost sheep) were dispersed among the people and needed to hear that their God had not deserted them, and had provided a way for them to come back through Messiah, who laid down His life for them.

    I’m quite familiar with the errors of the two house movement and do not subscribe to them, especially attempting to identify particular nations to particular tribes of the northern kingdom. But it is vitally important to recognize that the two houses do still exist, and that God has not forgotten either one and will fulfill His plan in the Kingdom to come.

  27. Hi Gary,

    That some from among exiled Israel fell away and were integrated into the Gentiles is unarguable, but the notion that all were, or that Israel is to be equated with the Gentiles is absolutely inaccurate. Note that in the first century, in the New Testament, you had those living there who were from the tribes of Israel. Anna the Prophetess was from the tribe of Asher for example. Paul writes some of his letters to all of the tribes who were dispersed. Their identities were known. He never equates them with Gentiles. Paul’s mission to the Gentiles was not because he viewed them as lost tribes of Israel, rather it was to fulfill the plan of God as defined within the Mosaic Covenant in Deuteronomy that it would be through a foolish people that His people Israel (Israel and Judah) would be provoked to anger, as part of His larger plan to restore them all to Himself. Take note that Paul said that when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, after this, then Israel would be saved. Paul does not say that it the fullness of the Gentiles is the same as all Israel being saved. As I said, be very wary of the errors of the Two House Movement.

    http://www.seedofabraham.org/downloads/ephraimite%20error.pdf

    http://shalommessianiccongregation.weebly.com/the-ephraimite-delusion.html

    Blessings,
    Joel

  28. I am reading your book MYSTERY BABYLON. Agree that Jerusalem could not be the ciy spoken of in Revelation, but one glaring bit of scripture still causes me to doubt your thesis somewhat. That is Rev 18:4. …”COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, THAT YE BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS…Non Muslim people are forbidden to step foot into Mecca. How can God’s people come out of her, when they are not even allowed into her? This seems to force an allegorical interpretation upon what you say is a physical city in the last days.

  29. Hi Cindi,

    I address this in the book. I always encourage folks to read the remainder before they begin posting their objections. As you will see, my thesis is not that Babylon is Mecca alone, but something much larger, encompassing the entire forthcoming mega city that will link together Mecca, Medina, King Abdullah Economic City and Jeddah. To some extent, it includes the whole kingdom of Saudi Arabia and in the broadest sense, all of Islam. One out of every three in Saudi Arabia is a foreign worker.

Leave a Reply

Related Posts

December 23, 2021
No Comments