16 Responses

1. Bull’s Eye! Wow… what a great cutting edge discussion that is extremely helpful to the cause of those who need something to show their friends about this issue. Joel.. thanks! I will get this book… and cannot wait to read it. This is because anybody who is honest with themselves knows they can find encourage, correction, and rebuke in this short episode.

2. The part about social justice is so true.
   A while ago I spoke with an elderly brother, who said after reading a book he found in a charity shop, he’s no longer convinced of Israel’s role in God’s future plans(and this a gentleman well familiar with the word.) Next thing he is complaining on social media of how Christians treat Palastinians unjustly.sadly his sense of balance is tipping.

   Joel can’t resist sharing with you a real Jem I found when reading the scriptures. Have shared with some others.

   Job pin points the timing of the rapture before Israel existed.
   Once you know about the heavens departing like a scroll on the day of the Lord, you can see Job understood these things long before Apostle Paul gave his fuller revelations on the matter!

   “So man lies down,and rises not,TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake or be raised out of their sleep. Job 14v12

   Absolutely amazing, (you can delete that bit if you like I know it’s off topic, but thought you may appreciate that little jem, that has thrilled me so much,as I had not heard any one else mention it)

3. I pray that this comment might help to bridge some understanding of Reformed movement and where, at least I think, it is currently. I do have some concern that the Reformed movement may not buy into this book, Joel. I noticed on-line sites including Facebook with some of the links to Reformed sites they really don’t like IHOP and have a lot of problems with certain doctrines coming from Mike Bickle. My wife actually has a cousin that is actively involved in their prayer groups. Myself, I don’t have a strong denominational upbringing due to the fact that my dad was not a Christian for most of his life. I tended be toward Reformed views when I was younger but because of the small town I grew up in also associated with Pentecostals. Pondering and wondering if Whitefield should try to broaden out to discuss the issues within IHOP as well, set the record straight, so that this subject of One King may be heard.

4. Hi Joel,

   Brilliant episode! For me, hands down, the best interview you have done with Samuel on THE UNDERGROUND!
   I was wondering…would Samuel’s new book be available on Amazon.co.uk sometime soon? Its just it would be be a better option for me, as I live in England…no worries if not an option, as I’d gladly get it from his website.
   Great to hear the view of things from the Body in America, especially when you talked about the things mentioned within the Reformed camp, with guys like John Piper and for me Timothy Keller, is another solid guy!
   I feel Samuel’s book is much needed, and balance in these things is paramount, so that we who love Israel, don’t immediately get labelled Dispensational or one-sided for instance…as Derek Prince used to say: Israel is the top button of the shirt…you get the top button right, and all the other buttons are correct then too!! (You get the top button wrong…oh boy!)

   I thought some of the best things from CITY OF THE GREAT KING (Covenant and Controversy part 2) were the things you shared on Preterism and what Samuel shared about those believers who don’t support Israel, due to her current condition…

   “…we don’t actually relate to Israel, on the basis of her condition, we relate to her on the basis of Covenantal promises, because all the powers and principalities are relating to Israel, not on the basis of her present condition, but her future promises…”

   That statement echos with Truth! Well said Samuel!

   Blessings Joel

   Paul

5. That was good stuff bro. I really think Samuel is being used (as are you) of the Lord to bring this subject out in a good, Biblical & balanced, “Jesus/Gospel-Centered” way to the Body. For the Reformed, the non-reformed, the charismatic, the mostly reformed but non full 5-point Calvinist Continuist (?), etc. We can all speak into the lives of those God has put in our own personal Sphere on these topics. And if one is willing to dig in, reformed love to talk about the Word, doctrine, etc. so we can all find unity. And some who may pre-judge certain circles in the Body based on what’s on the internet (& how it’s framed often) could be dead wrong in many of their assessments & criticisms. I know that has certainly happened to me over the years before. ? Let us all love the Word of God, & also walk humbly before the Lord & other members of the Body, especially those unlike us exactly in all things. 1 Corinthians 11-12 I believe it is speaks of differing parts of the body respecting & loving other parts, & 13 says we should “hope all things, believe all things” (not as in believing anything, but believing the best about others – as opposed to being critical/suspicious/quick to judge/condemn). Anyways, may we all be humble & seek unity in the Body. I have met amazing brethren/sisters in the Body that God has used that run in different circles than I typically. I hank God for it too! I believe We will all be humbled one day (THAT Day) at how many things we thought we knew everything about but missed it here or there in our evaluations/discernment, so we might as well start humbling ourselves now & loving the brethren (& if the Gospel essentials are in place, know God will separate wheat & tares at the harvest & we are not to do that “lest we uproot some wheat with the Tares). That’s not to say we condone heresy, but some people wrongly think anyone who disagrees with their exact doctrinal understanding on every matter is a heretic (even though they used to think differently on some things – but don’t see themselves as recent heretics ?).
   Anywho, great episode & thanks for having Samuel on. Wish I was going to OneKing again this year! Can’t recommend it highly enough to anyone interested in going.
   God Bless,
   Jeff

6. Joel,

   I am just poking fun at you because I know you like to be exact in your teaching. My question is @ 09:30. You mentioned the 90 yard line… I can see N.T. Write making this mistake but YOU!

7. Ha. You’re right, I did play seven years of football… No excuse.

8. Joel, I always learn something of worth when you and Samuel have a conversation. Thank you! Also, many thanks for rearranging the sticks in the corner. They were getting to be a distraction.

9. Well… I didn’t rearrange the sticks. My lights were just not working. : )

10. Mentioned your new book in a Facebook post, being a seminary grad in Christian counseling and knowing several ministers on-line, I mentioned the following with a link to the book at Amazon:

    “Joel’s books always are interesting and very well researched. I haven’t read his new book yet but know his perspectives and that he does very in-depth research. Always had problem with the Rome interpretation on this subject as Catholics have also received persecution over the centuries as well for their testimony by Communists and other religious regimes. Joel goes into the various perspectives and their weaknesses and strengths. Would highly recommend this!”

11. Thanks Gary. Greatly blessed by your encouragement and support there.

12. This is a really great video, Joel! I do pray that many will have ‘good soil’ to perceive and accept it, and begin to either change negative or unbalanced views, or else to be strengthened to stand in the way of truth it brings together.

    It is also a great statement by Samuel of standing with Israel because of God’s redemptive purpose, and not merely because of present political realities. Even Balaam was given by the LORD to see Israel’s end from her then, and now, condition. Here is just one example of that in Num 23:
    “21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

    22 God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.

    23 Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!”

    I hope we can see each other again when you come to Jerusalem for the conference. BTW, next week I am “intentionally” beginning a 5-mo study series that Avner is teaching. 🙂

    Blessings throughout this momentous year.
    Howard

13. Fantastic. Yes indeed Howard. Always enjoy seeing you. Blessings!

14. Hi Joel,
    This has been one of the best UNDERGROUND episodes – so needed that further discussion re the millenials.
    Sometimes, as an older person, the whole millenials topic can be exhausting, but to have it brought to the fore again by you and Samuel was very good.
    The whole episode was such an encouragement.

    I so look forward to reading your new book and Samuels book.
    A friend will be ordering them for us here in South Africa happily.

    We give the Lord thanks for what he is doing in these days through your ministries.

15. Hi Joel,
    A great episode.

16. So glad it was an encouragement Lynn. Blessings!