The Underground Episode 40: Gog Magog Rising?

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  1. Joel,

    For some reason this episode keeps freezing up and will not play. I tried several different ways to get it to play with no success. I wonder if others are having trouble getting this one to play as well?

    Grrrr! Frustrating! Lord, please command Satan to stop messing with Joel’s show and Satan does not obviously want anyone to see this one in particular.

    Can you reload i, Joel or see if it works on your end and what others have to say if they can’t play it either? Just a thought.

    Blessings!

  2. Hmmm. Seems to be working fine on my end. Try again later and let me know if it works.

  3. I trust in your research and scholarship on this issue, Joel. Magog has to be Turkey, based on all the relevant historical data.

    My question is a bit left of field though. It has to do with the Roman Catholic Church, and how it fits in with the prophecies of the End Times. I’m sorry for not being aware of your stance on this matter. For one, I’d like to know what you think about the connections between the RCC and Islam, and in particular the revelations of a former Jesuit priest by the name of Alberto Rivera who said that the Roman Catholic Church created Islam?

    Many people are saying that the RCC and the current Pope (the first Jesuit Pope) are working hard to bring about a one world religion at the moment.

    My feeling is that Rivera (and others who said the same thing) was right, and that the Catholic Church and Islam are the Beast and False Prophet prophesied in the Book of Revelations, and they’ll both be the antichrists working in tandem together during the End of Days to be enemies of Christ. (I apologise to any Roman Catholics who may be offended by my statements).

    I just can’t deny the immense power that the Catholic Church (synonymous with the old Roman empire) has in the world these days, and so it must figure in the prophecies somehow.

    Thanks Joel. Again I’m sorry if you’ve already addressed this question before in the past.

  4. Sharon,

    The idea that the RCC created Islam is a gross anachronism. The Roman Catholic Church technically didn’t even exist yet. The schism between the east and the west occurred just after the turn of the first millennium. There was only one church back then. Secondly, there is no evidence. Muhammad was influenced by a Nestorian priest. Nestorianism is considered heterodox by the RCC. Most of the Christians of Arabia at the time were Nestorians. They to a degree hid out in Arabia. In the end, there were a series of ideas and influences that helped form Islam, but at the source, it was created by the Devil. As for Roman Catholics, while I am a Protestant, and stand on the principles of the Reformation, I am not a staunch anti-Roman Catholic basher. Most of the martyrs giving their lives for Jesus today in the Middle East Chaldean Catholics, Assyrians. What the future will hold is yet to be seen. Until then any firm opinions are only that, speculation and opinion. God knows best.

  5. Where is the link to the radio debate with S Douglas Woodward from SW Radio?
    Can’t find it anywhere….

    Thanks

  6. The Magog invasion has and is already occurring right before every Christians eyes. It is those people who say they are Jews and persecuting the true Semites that were already in the land prior to the Occupation.
    Many religious leaders missed the coming of Elijah prior Jesus, who was John the Baptist.
    Many religious leaders missed the coming of the Messiah.
    Sadly, Christians have missed the invasion of Magog into Israel that was made legal by the United Nations in 1948.
    As Christians we have been deceived by the Devil to side with the so called state of Israel over the Palestinians. DNA has proven the people who claim to be Israel are not even Semites.
    Israel is a Jewish state. Judaism and Christianity are two opposing forces. We have been deceived into believing in a Judeo-Christian friendship.
    Many Jewish people believe that the state of Israel is not ordained by God because they are to remain in exile until the coming of the Messiah.
    Can anyone show one prophecy to rebuild the Temple and inhabit the land after Jesus told of its destruction and exiled them after the Roman attacks. God instructed them twice after the Babylonian and Assyrian exiles to rebuild, where then is the third?
    Christians should not support the state of Israel.

  7. Christopher,

    To be very direct, this is absolutely idiotic on so many levels. Not only is it sinful to recycle foolish anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that are verifiably false, but what you are saying is also demonstrably unbiblical. The Bible, (including the words of Jesus Himself), makes it clear that His people Israel would be in the land and attacked by the surrounding nations (Ezekiel 38-39; Zechariah 12-14; Joel 3, Matthew 24). Jesus also said that He would not come back again until the Jewish people say Baruch Haba B’shem Adonai “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord” and welcomes Yeshua to Jerusalem. If the Jews there now are “imposters,” then who will welcome Him back? This kind of anti-semitic historical revisionism is only proof that Satan is alive and plenty of willing vessels will allow themselves to spread his filth. Very simply Christopher, you need to repent.

  8. Wow. Christopher… Have you actually read the prophecies according to Israel and her return? First in unbelief. Try reading Ezekiel 36-37. Zechariah goes in depth as well. Brother, this is a lie straight from the pit of hell.

  9. Also, thanks Joel for replying on the link to the debate. I was rather impressed with this rebuttal to Woodward. Well done. I like him, but I believe he jumped the gun in regards to the Gog Magog issue. Thanks!

    Jesse in KC MO

  10. Thank you Joel, many blessings
    to you and your family. I agree with you and thank you for defending the Truth from the statement above.

  11. Thanks Joel for another great teaching. As for the questions about the Roman Catholic Church, one should go back to what we are told identifies the Anti-Christ spirit in I John 2:22 where we are told “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”. This identification is what helped me understand that Islam is the spirit of Anti-Christ, and that even if the RCC (and Protestant churches for that matter) were influenced by pagan practices even to this day, they are still our brothers and sisters in Christ.

  12. There is a common assumption that if one can find a pagan practice that precedes a similar practice or symbol etc., within Christianity, this infers pagan corruption of the Church. This does not follow logically however.

  13. Another Great Episode Joel! Keep it up & keep it coming brother. May God Richly bless you & yours.
    In Christ,
    Jeff M

  14. Hi Joel,
    Thank you thank you for your thorough research. Your direct approach is so refreshing. I am grateful to God for teachers like you. The prophetic road to deeper knowledge is littered with trash, detours and dead ends -thank you for sweeping it clean and tending it for us. Can you recommend reliable Revelation expositors?

  15. David Pawson’s work on Revelation is excellent. Although GK Beale is an amillennialist, his commentary is the best expository commentary. The classic Lutheran RH Lenski has a great commentary. GH Lang is among my favorites as well. Osbourne’s is great.

  16. Hello, Joel . I hope to read this (Book) written by Dr. Safar Al Hawali ( an Islamic Scholar) i. It contains some harsh words because it’s written in 2000 after the Intifada in Jerusalem( The Revolution) after Ariel Sharon had visited that Al Masjid Alqas. The book , basically, gives an interpretation for (Daniel 2 & Daniel 7). And The Islamic view of propices in general . Enjoy 🙂
    http://www.religioscope.com/pdf/The%20Day%20of%20Wrath.pdf

  17. Hi Abdullah,

    Yes, I have read it. From one the Saudi’s “awakening imams.” What is your view of it?

  18. In Mathew 23:37 just before he speaks about his return Jesus says ” Look , your house is left to you you desolate.”

    Since he called the second temple his fathers house, is he speaking of the tribulation temple here, since he refers to it as “your house” ?

    Also in Psalm 127:1 it say ” Unless the Lord builds the house,
    the builders labor in vain.

    I’m thinking this could also be the tribulation temple.
    What do you think ?

  19. He was speaking of that day. Your house was likely just a reference to Israel of that day. Not sure it demands a reference to the Temple. “Your house” is a common idiom, not only biblically but even today.

  20. Good program Joel, this will be really good to share. (glad its not incumbent on me to read all those books.)Had some great opportunities to share about the rapture and the end times. It was easily received. God is truly doing something, looking forward to sharing your new video with them. And…..i think i have found a church, the Pastor is for Israel AND he invites Gods spirit in the midst! This is a good time.

    Thank the Lord for you and your wife.

  21. Well done Joel. Many blessings !
    Everyday is a greater possibility that Nato will fall under Turkey influence and deception.

  22. Awesome. That’s great Linda. So blessed to hear it. Thanks for your encouragement and support.

  23. Hello Joel,
    I’d be interested to read your thoughts about that book.
    Thank you.

  24. Hi Abdullah,

    Very briefly, as a Christian, I found his efforts strained and lacking in any real understanding of the texts. Muslims cannot retroactively reinterpret texts that are over a 1000 older than Muhammad so as to validate Islam. Rather they need to allow these texts to interpret Islam, whether true or not. Of course, you know what my verdict ill be on that. I’m sure you are also aware that the author is well know for fomenting radicalism in Saudi.

    Respectfully,
    Joel

  25. Great Video. John Gills exposition of the bible has an interesting take on this passage as well.

  26. Hi Abdullah,

    I will read whatever you write. I will likely not post it however. I’m sure you understand.

    Blessings,
    Joel

  27. Hi Joel, YES ! I understand. No problem at all.
    It’s enough for me that you will read what I’m going to write. However, I’ve been busy lately, so I couldn’t write. I assume that you already read my previous long comment about what I think the weak points are in your own interpretation , Right?
    I will write for you just when I’ve free time soon.
    May Allah guide you to the true path.

  28. Joel great episode as usual! I was wondering where the Yazidi’s fit into all this. I have been communicating to many and would love to hear your perspective on it. Thanks

  29. Yazidis are just a group that I know the Lord would love to redeem. They are deceived, but incredibly sweet people. Of the various peoples I met while in Iraq, they had the best behaved kids by far. I really loved them.

  30. Thanks Joel yes they are so deceived by such a mix of religions. Such a unique group of people and just love them too. Have yet to meet one that has converted. I try to share the Gospel in a way they would understand much prayer needed. Relationship is the key.

  31. Abdullah,

    In Al-Hawali’s version of end-time events, Christians and Jews will be decisively defeated in the year 2012, with Islam ruling supreme. He obviously was very wrong. Similarly, in an “Open Letter to President Bush,” dated October 15, 2001, Al-Hawali expressed delight at the events of 9/11, which he viewed as a precursor to the coming apocalyptic Holy War between Islam and the West.

    I assume you reject these sentiments?

  32. Not at all Joel.
    Regarding his timing,
    He gave many persuasions for (Timing) since we deal with a corrupted material in the first place. ( He mentioned that).
    He has been affirming that nothing is assured because it’s just a study.
    In his conclusion in the last page he said 2012 COULD be the END or the (Beginning of the End.)

    I mean just watch John Hagee or Paul Begley to see the level that Dr Safar talk by and those christian apologists .
    There’s no comparison with all respect.

    =============
    ” Al-Hawali expressed delight at the events of 9/11″
    I’m not in a position to defend him. However, he has never expressed his delight as I know even in his letter. There’s a VIDEO on YOUTUBE while he is condemning that event explicitly. He was questioning the official story about that event , that’s all!,and that was not something unique about him. Many Americans question the official story.
    His letter for Bush was a mere invitation for a (dialogue)

    I hope that you read his writings! Many christians keep quoting from falsely from his book .

  33. Over the past few years, I have noticed an increase in Muslims evangelizing to Christians about Islam in the Northwest. They are trying to appeal to Christians by saying how Islam believes in Jesus, how they believe he is coming back, advertising lectures about Jesus at their Islamic Center, etc. We previously had 2 different sets of Muslim neighbors who we were friendly with and we learned quite a bit. (They’ve since moved.) The husband of one family approached me about Jesus, telling me excitedly how he believes Jesus is coming back. Of course he also expressed his belief that Jesus did not die on the cross but was taken up and a substitute was put in his place. I was delighted to tell him the truth about Jesus and share the gospel with him.

  34. Hi Joel (Greetings from Ireland), really enjoy your teachings and it clearly shows how critical, context is in Bible Study, especially in the field of prophecy. You have clearly demonstrated the difference and danger of eisegesis and exegesis. I just ordered your book “The Mideast Beast” and looking forward to digging deeper in Gods Word. Thank you for your ministry and keeping you and your family in my prayers. God bless you brother.

  35. Hi Joel, I listen to every episode. I appreciate your work so much. For years I have been a convert to your teaching that the anti-christ will be islamic. i have to admit, however, that i do have one reservation and i would like you to address it. While i agree the Bible is fully clear that many of the nations attacking israel will be islamic, i am caught on the Turkey/Russia debate as head of this anti-christ empire. Why do we not take Josephus at his word that, “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.”? It seems we rely on Josephus for lots of other good information. Why do we not trust him on this? If descendants of the Scythians were in fact spread to many countries, is it really that foolish to say the great bulk of them ended up in Russia and thus that is the country intended? I have heard you say many times you are relying on the historico-grammatical method…i just wonder whether we are being too staunch about that method in this regard. Sometimes i wonder why it’s wrong to follow our nose (so to speak) and follow a huge clue from such an eminent historian like Josephus? You can probably tell I only know enough to be dangerous…this is a sincere question, not trying to be challenging.

  36. Hi Chuck,

    Josephus wrote roughly 600 years after Ezekiel. In determining what Ezekiel meant, we look to how Ezekiel would have understood these names in day, when the prophecy was made, not 600 years later. Ezekiel would have understood these names based on where their ancient homelands were ( it was Asia Minor) and also where had they largely scattered by Ezekiel’s day. In Ezekiel’s day, the Scythians that Josephus referred to still mostly lived in Asia Minor/Turkey. They were not pushed out of Asia Minor until the Persians pushed them out after conquering Babylon and sweeping westward. Even by Josephus’ day, 600 years after Ezekiel, they had not yet reached Russia, but lived in Bulgaria, Moldova, Romania and Ukraine. Shortly after Josephus, they likely reached what is now considered Russia. So again, if we are doing the bloodline tracing them down through history thing, thats fine, but we have to do it with every name. No one does that. They all use my method for dos of the names and then switch selectively, mostly with Rosh and Magog to come to a Russian led Middle Eastern war scenario. But there is simply no consistent way to get away with doing that. Either it is essentially a Global attack from caucasian nations or it is a Turkish led Middle eastern invasion. There is no hermeneutical principle whereby we can just arbitrarily mix the two theories.

    I hope this helps.
    Blessings,
    Joel

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