26 Responses

1. Excellent work.

2. Many thanks! I just finished these DVDs yesterday.

3. I got the chance to personally attend the taping and prophecy conference for this DVD. It was an all day event and well worth my time! I do miss going to your prophecy conferences, Joel! LOL You have not had one since! Loved every minute of it. Any chance of you having another taping in my area any time soon?

4. Unfortunately only a week or so after this particular DVD was filmed, a great tragedy took place there at First Baptist, with them losing their pastor, who I had an excellent relationship with. Although I did come back the following year, the new leadership put the kibosh on any further seminars. Apparently I was a bit too controversial. Next year, I am beginning to work on a documentary that I am very excited about. I am planning on filming in several countries throughout the Middle East. But I do need to do another DVD sometime here soon. I have some excellent material. Hopefully by the end of this year, we will have both the documentary as well as a new teaching DVD. Regardless, with the new baby and the documentary, its going to be a very busy year.

5. Oh, I’m thankful to whoever made this. Very well done!

6. Ahhh…yes! Biblical prophecy is not for the weak and timid! You, Joel, controversial? Not a chance! I call you one of the pioneers of modern understanding and partially responsible for the great paradigm shift of this biblical subject. I will pray that God will soften the hearts of pastors to step out in faith so that a future taping could be made for new teaching DVD related to this subject. I know full well you have excellent material for I have witnessed your teaching personally. Now, to persuade my pastor that you are worth his time for a DVD taping…a tall order. But, as always, it is God who ultimately decides all things for His purposes.

   Blessings!

7. I am a believer and I know that Jesus is the christ, son of the living god.
   When we read all these passages, I read a lot about the spirit.
   Jesus coming in spirit, people seeing god in the spirit, etc.
   Could this final battle of armaggedon be a spiritual return of christ only?
   How do we know that he is actually going to come and rule himself and not through us?
   Could it be symbolic of Israel taking control of the world and proclaiming God?
   We read alot of him making us kings and priest.
   Could we have/going to reign with christ as his priest and kings on this earth?
   Also, when he rules for 1000 years, could this have happened already?
   Christianity has been a dominant religion and founded the core values of the majority of the world for quite some time.
   Is it possible we are the final generation after the millenial reign?
   Just a curious christian looking for answers.

8. Peter,

   I assume you are quite new to the subject of Bible study and most particularly eschatology. When you actually read the passages, they do not describe the Lord coming in the Spirit. They consistently use very physical and anthropomorphic language. Even as Jesus ascended physically into heaven, so did an angel state that he would return in like manner:

   “After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” Acts 1:9-11

   There is no reason to read the Hebrew Scriptures in a Greek allegorical manner. I would encourage you to get the Islam and the End Times DVD set and consider the info.

   Blessings

9. I’m with you on that, an that is how I feel about his return.
   I am not disagreeing, I think yours and walid’s work is the best there is in the prophecy world.
   I’m not new to the study, I just wonder if we are missing something.
   So this means after his millenial reign on earth, satan is released out of his prison again?
   So this is not the end?

10. Recently read your book, Mideast Beast. It was phenomenal! Have not yet seen this DVD series. Where do I buy it? Finished reading the study guide yesterday, and it is great. Are you coming to the DFW area to preach anytime in the next 12 months? I’d love to be there if you are. Thank you for separating myth from fact. I was caught up in myth for far too long, and it made the bible so hard to understand. Thru these lenses, the scriptures are opening up in new ways in my heart and mind. Thank you.

11. Joel,

    I just finished your books and your DVD sets (Understanding the Times: Session 1 was Exceptional!) Thank you for all of your work and more importantly your spirit of humility that is evident in your books and DVDs. I do, however, have a question regarding timeline, and i was wondering if you could help me understand your theory better. Your theory of Saudia Arabia being “Mystery Babylon” makes sense. I already understood that Ezekiel 38 was Armageddon (your work helped solidify this position for me,) but I am trying to understand the timeline. In Ezekiel 38:13, “Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish with all its rulers will ask you, ‘Have you come to seize spoil?…'” All of my biblical tools identify Sheba and Dedan on the Arabian Peninsula, just as you do in your work. And nearly all modern scholars place Tarshish in southern Europe and/or Spain, just as you do. So, my question is, how is it that Saudi Arabia (Sheba and Dedan) protest the Armageddon invasion, if Saudi Arabia (Harlot) is to be destroyed by the Beast. This is a question of the timeline of your theory. It would seem that the Northern Beast would have to destroy Mystery Babylon before Armageddon (Last Battle,) and if they have been destroyed, how can they protest? Where do you see the destruction of Mystery Babylon in the prophetic timeline? I hope this makes sense.

    God Bless you brother!
    Matt

12. Well, good news, Joel! My pastor will read the Study Guide from the second DVD and get back to me! That is all I can ask at this point. Let us both pray that the LORD softens the heart of my pastor, the elder leadership and there is an opening in both the church’s and your calendar that is doable to do a new teaching DVD taping in 2013. With God, all things are possible! Please let me know if you are contacted regarding this DVD taping. I really am trying to temper my excitement here…it is not my will, but God’s will be done! Amen! 🙂

13. Good4U,

    Great, thanks much. I’ll let you know if I hear anything. Bless you!

14. It’s long overdue for having a Christian like Joel steering the flock away from the nonsense of a Roman AC from the EU. I came to understand the AC is Assyrian many years ago from Dake’s book: Revelation Expounded.

    I’m surprised to see you supporting a post Trib rapture. He appears to apply all scriptures on the resurrection of the just to a single event at the end of the Tribulation. I believe there are three different group resurrections of the just in the first resurrection and one resurrection of the unjust at the end of a thousand years. If one includes Christ’s resurrection and the resurrection of the two witnesses (Rev 11:7-9), there are five righteous resurrections. This is a total of six resurrections, six being the number of man.

    Read Rev 20:4-6 again. There are two different groups of saints in heaven; those with glorified bodies sitting on thrones ready to judge and the ‘souls’ of those martyred during the Great Tribulation. The glorified saints on thrones were formerly the church on earth prior to the rapture just before the time of God’s wrath began; they are seen by John in heaven offering prayers to God during the Great Tribulation (8:3-4). The souls of the martyred Tribulation saints are waiting to return with Christ and be resurrected.

    Christ’s resurrection in 33 A.D. was the first fruits of the resurrection of the righteous. The first in order of righteous people to be resurrected are those belonging to him (1 Cor 15:22). This group of believers includes only those indwelled with the Holy Spirit from Pentecost in 33 A.D. to the rapture, it does not include the OT saints and martyred Tribulation saints who are not in Christ’s body of believers (Col 1:18).

    Next in order for the first resurrection are the two witnesses who are murdered by the AC, lay in the streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days and taken up to God’s throne before the AC and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire prior to Armageddon (Rev 19:19-20).

    Next is the resurrection of the OT prophets and saints (Rev 11:18) before God’s final day of wrath (11:19; 6:21).

    The final and third group of righteous people resurrected is the Tribulation saints who reign with Christ a thousand years. (Rev 20:4).

    The “last day” when the just are resurrected is not the final 24 hour period when Christ returns to earth, it is the last 1,000 year period before the eternal state for creation. There have been 4 thousand years before the advent Christ and 2,000 years since then. We are near the very end of the 6th day of a thousand years and the beginning of the 7th day when Christ rules over the earth. The 7th day is the “last day” when everybody is resurrected. The Church resurrection begins the last day and the great white throne judgment ends it.

    I disagree with most of your interpretations in the study guide. One big problem you have is keeping God’s plan for the church separate from God’s plan for Israel. You are mixing scriptures meant for the church and scriptures meant for Israel. You are confusing scriptures that point to the coming of Christ in grace for his church with scriptures on the coming of Christ in judgment to punish the inhabitants of the earth. You’re trying to mix holy water with dirty oil.

    Important for the proper interpretation of God’s Word is the context of scripture, is it a message for the church or does it refer to Israel. We can learn from the Apostle Paul about the corporate church and its doctrine and its destiny but not from Jesus.

    When Paul speaks of the parousia and Christ returning for those who belong to him (1 Thess 4:15; 1 John 2:28), he is referring to the rapture in the “day of Christ” (Phil 1:6; 2:16). He always associates his coming for his church in the context of God’s grace, never in the context of God’s judgments prophesied by the OT prophets. He does mention Christ’s parousia in the day of the Lord (2 Thess 2:8) to judge those who do not know God and reject the gospel (1:6-8).

    We can learn from Jesus and OT prophets about Israel and its future during their time of trouble but not from Paul. References to Christ’s parousia at the end of the Tribulation are in Mt 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; the context of these chapters is Israel experiencing persecution, wars and judgments from God. The church cannot be in the context of these chapters because the disciples were ignorant of what the church was. The church did not begin until after Jesus ascended to the Father and later divinely revealed to Paul. The gathering of the “elect” by his angels is Jews gathered back into the Land to inherit the earthly kingdom. Consult the teachings of Jesus to gain knowledge of Israel’s future and consult Paul to learn what the future beholds for the church.

    Daniel 9:24-27

    Of the Seventy sevens or 490 years decreed for God’s people and Jerusalem, 483 years have been fulfilled with the crucifixion of Jesus in 33 A.D. The final 7 years (490 – 483) awaits fulfillment by the Jews and Jerusalem. The ruler or prince who will come and destroy the city and temple cannot be the Roman general Titus because he sacked Jerusalem in 67-70 A.D. after the end of 483 years and before the 70th week when its fulfillment is required. During the last 7 years the Assyrian ruler and Muslims will destroy Jerusalem and the third temple. When Titus sacked Jerusalem he was commander of the Roman Army and not a “ruler.” He was emperor from 89-91 A.D.

    The Islamic Empire from 622-750 A.D. and the Ottoman Islamic Empire around 1800 cannot be the 7th head or kingdom of the 7 headed beast in Revelation for the same reason Titus cannot be the prince who comes. The appearance of the 7th and 8th kingdoms must be fulfilled during Daniel’s 70th week.

    Rev 17: 11 tells us the 8th king or Antichrist “belongs to the seven” prior kingdoms of 1-Egypt, 2-Assyria, 3-Babylon, 4-Medo-Persia, 5-Greece, 6-Rome, 7th empire. The 8th king was part of or within the boundaries of the previous 7 kingdoms. An Islamic empire never existed during the time of the previous 6 kingdoms. The 8th king is a revived empire that once was, was not in John’s day and will come to be revived in the 70th week. I strongly believe the 8th king “going to his destruction” is the Assyrian and the 7th kingdom is the revised Roman Empire comprised of the 10 Islamic horns (Dan 7:24-25). The second head of the beast (Assyria) receives the fatal wound and is revived in the 70th week. The sixth head is Rome and revised Rome combined.
    The Islamic world will likely accept the Assyrian AC as their revived Caliphate. Rev 17:12-13 supports their acceptance of him for they “give their power and authority to the beast.”

    Ezekiel 38-39:
    Gog and the Assyrian AC invade Israel in the middle of the 7 year covenant when they are at peace with her neighbors. Near the end of the second half of the covenant, the Great Tribulation, armies of the nations surrounding Israel and the kings of the east (Rev 16:12) are gathered for Armageddon (16; 19:17-18). Bloodshed from Armageddon will cover a distant of about 180 miles, the approximate length of the Holy Land from north to south (Rev 14:20) and includes the mountains of Israel (Eze 38:21; 39:17).

    The focus of Ezekiel’s prophecy is the invasion of Israel at the beginning of Jacob’s trouble and Christ’s war with the nations at the end of it. He is silent on what transpires in Israel and the world between these two wars. Ezekiel 38:1-16 and 39:1-2 covers the invasion and 38:17-23 and 39:3-6 covers the war between Christ and the nations.

    Ten horns:
    Can the 10 horns or nations of today be identified? We know from Daniel 7:23-25 the ten horns come from the fourth kingdom of Rome.

    The kingdom in power before Rome was the Grecian Empire under Alexander the Great. After his death in 323 his kingdom was divided into the four regions of Greece, Asia Minor, Syria and the Holy Land and Egypt. Out of one of the four divisions the Antichrist, as the little horn, will arise (Daniel 8:8-9). Daniel 11:2-32 describes the many conflicts between the king of north of the Syrian division and the king of the south of the Egyptian division.

    Daniel is taken in a time machine to the future Daniel’s 70th week and prophesies about the coming Antichrist and what he does in the time of the end, the Great Tribulation (11:36-39). In the time of the end the king of the south (Egypt) engages the king of the north (Syria) in battle (11:40). The king who exalts himself here is the same person Paul describes in 2 Thess 2:3-4 as the man of lawlessness, another name for the Antichrist.

    Daniel’s little horn, as the AC, comes up among the ten horns and conquers three of the ten horns (7:8). The ten horns must be in the same region as Syria, the Middle East! What nations are the ten horns?

15. Peter,

    I apologize for assuming that you were new to these things. Your question is whether or not what I refer to as “orthodox amillennialism” might be Scriptural as opposed to a literal future millennium. Orthoox amillennialism believes in a future antichrist, great tribulation, etc. Heretical amillennialism is rooted in preterism, the idea that most biblical prophecy is past. The primary reason to argue against this is simply because there are far too many passages throughout the prophets that speak of a future, literal reign of Messiah on the earth, specifically from Jerusalem. If we try to spiritualize or allegorize these things, we are forced to twist Scripture in ways that are very difficult to justify, even by the most ardent amillenilialists. Ezekiel 40-47 is a good example. In fact, if you go back into the writings of the ancient Church writers, who often took a spiritualized view of much of the OT, you will not find a single comment on this portion of Ezekiel. They do not know what to do with it. ONe could essentially cut this portion of the Bible out and they would lose absolutely nothing. But not if we take it literally. Also, far too many significant eschatological passages intertwine and connect the concepts of a literal future Antichrist and Great Tribulation with a literal, future physical return of Messiah, an equally physical resurrection of the dead, and reign of Messiah, specifically from Jerusalem. Its awfully difficult to take a passage, Daniel 11-12, being perhaps the best example and pull out segments as literal while allegorizes other components.

    So yes, at the end of the thousand years, there is one brief final attack by Satan.

    I hope this very brief and partial response has helped. Please forgive my brevity.

    Bless you!

16. Matt,

    If one understands Ezekiel 38, 39 as a broad description, referring generally to the entirety of the final seven years, beginning with the idea planted in Gog’s mind to invade, and then emphasizing and concluding with his actual invasion and ultimate destruction in the land of Israel, then the destruction of Babylon could fit in there wherever you wish, after the abomination of desolations in the middle point of the final seven years. But God knows best.

    Bless you

17. Matt,

    Adding to what Joel has said, in a broad sense, the events in Ezekiel 38 & 39 prophecy starts very close to the mid-point of the tribulation, going through the battle of Armageddon (Day of the Lord), and ending in the beginning years of the Millennium Kingdom. Gog’s invasion of Israel with his consort nations and peoples will happen very close to the mid-point of the tribulation, somehow connected to the abomination of desolation. Gog (Antichrist) will occupy the land of Israel for three and a half years as he persecutes and kills many Jews. God’s judgment upon Gog and his alliance nations and peoples will happen at the end of the tribulation period, during the commonly called Battle of Armageddon or the Great Battle of the Almighty God. Sheba and Dedan (Saudi Arabia and possibly other Arabian peninsula nations) will protest, as many believe (or I see it more as a threat related to their own riches and oil, not Israel’s), possibly after the mid-point of the tribulation. Somewhere between the mid-point of the tribulation and the end of the tribulation (timeframe established by the 42 months of Rev 13:5), the 10 kings (of Rev 17) and the Beast (Antichrist/Gog) will destroy Saudi Arabia (and possibly others). The merchants of Tarshish could be linked to the merchants and shipmasters of Revelation 18.

    Blessings

18. Just been reading Nahum, and theres an interesting verse (1:11) which is just like Dan 8:23. Is this referring to the AC as well? And if so, he’s from Ninevah? (Mosul).
    If its the case, i dont think it necessarily contradicts Gog of Magog (Turkey)…George III was king of britain, but didnt even speak zee English. He vas a German.
    Jesus was born in Bethelhem but grew up in galilee.

19. Interestingly enough, I was listening to a Dick Morris video and he off-handedly mentions Egypt, “As apart of the New Caliphate.” It is crazy to think that the secular world is seeing the same things you are predicting. The Bible is truly amazing!

    http://www.dickmorris.com/netanyahu-blinks-dick-morris-tv-lunch-alert/

20. If I may, the chapters and verses that are looked at in dealing with the Second Coming of Christ, can be interpreted as events that have been fulfilled in the past, and will be in the future (albeit in a different context). Plus, there are other ways of looking at those chapters and verses, and I referred to that in another blog entry of Joel’s.

    I originally meant to write about http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/12/11/jonathan-kay-as-afghanistan-and-pakistan-destroy-thesmelves-will-an-ethnic-pashtunistan-take-root/

    I can see the same taking place within Turkey, with the Kurds and Assyrians having their own homelands, and Turkey taking the lead of what is now Turkey, Iraq and Syria.

    For, in that part of the world, and arguably from Morocco to India, borders are artificial lines in the sand, and frankly they don’t mean as much to inhabitants of that part of the world, as they are to us outside of that part of the world.

21. I came across this, and frankly it shines light on opposition to Erdogan, and Morsi.

    http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2012/12/13/jordans-king-abdullah-threatens-to-shut-down-egypts-economy/

22. Joel,

    Looking at this first study guide which is so good got me to thinking…would it be possible for your volunteer study guide developer to do study guides for your other available teaching DVD’s? After downloading and reflecting on it, I just wished I had had this when I attended this DVD taping. It was my first seminar under you and my hand hurt after taking my own personal notes from the sessions. I was blown away by how clear and understandable prophecy became to me. The study guide is what my pastor said he was willing to look at rather than the DVD for some reason. Don’t ask me why because I don’t know. This might be key to getting pastors willing to listen to you and those like you who support the Islamic paradigm position. Just a thought to pass along to you for your prayer and consideration.

    Blessings.

23. To Mr Lincoln:
    Interesting that Mohammed built an army during the collapse of the Sassinid and Rome (Byzantine Turkey which Mohammed referred to in the Quran and Joel is correct). Arabia was always the spoils of the Persian, Greek, Rome, etc. and it is apparent the Arab population were quite disgruntled over this.
    Rome, Sassinids, Parthian were all tolerant of their citizens and all religions. Mohammed used religion to divide Christians and Jews who I bet were part of military outposts. By creating Islam as an Arabic religion, Mohammed was able to deftly divide the occupying armies, unite a race of people who were vicious and strong warriors simply by proclaiming Islam is for the arabic and defining the religion based on thousands of years of Arabic tradition and custom!! In doing so, we have a man made and man enforced religion/governmental system.
    In an era where the current Western powers are emasculating their citizens and attacking Christianity and Judaism as not just evil, but worse, anti government, it is no wonder Islam is taking such a prominent place within these powers. Islam is an answer to their prayers- a religion based on controlling the government! One religion, one government, one order world wide. Such a system would necessarily require enforcement and “vchips” that record each individual’s behavior in order to mandate compliance. And to think that Moses, Daniel, Ezekiel, John the B
    aptist and Jesus foresaw all of this is amazing. WOW!

24. I have followed prophecy nearly everyday for 20 years. Even had my own radio program called, “Day of the Lord” for two years. I broke away from the Pre-Trib thinking after reading Marvin Rozanthol’s book titled, “Prewrath rapture of the church”. I have also taken extended training from Charles Cooper. I am so glad I stumbled onto your teaching. They both are struggling to understand EZ. 38 and 39. You have answered the questions I have had for years. I think that it is so important to do what you are doing because some of us are still looking for answers to our very serious questions. I have ordered a couple of your books and just wanted to say thanks for being so accurate with Scripture. I pray the Lord will continue to give you and others insight. Oh! on a picky point.. IN this study the word “Revelations” should be changed to “Revelation” when referring to the Bible. This is not that important but a mere observation on accuracy. I have found a peace in my spirit knowing that I have somebody I can turn to for DIFFERENT answers to questions I have had for years. What you teach just makes so much sense. I pray that Lord’s hand of protection on you and your family.

25. Troy,

    Thank you. I’ve also benefitted much from Rosenthal, Van Campen and Cooper’s work. I am somewhat still on the fence between pre-wrath and post-trib, believing that it may be possible to somewhat reconcile the two. But this is not my area of emphasis. Either way, we are preparing to face the AC and the Great Tribulation. I would emphasize however that although I do not ascribe to the pre-trib view, I do not see this as an issue with which to divide over. I think this issue has been the source of far too much division in the past with Christian charity lacking. My effort is to preach what I believe, rather than bashing that which I do not. Though I often fail in this effort.

    Bless you!