27 Responses

1. I was hoping you would have a response to what the MB Islamist-extremists were doing in Egypt. The nation needs Western Christians to fight for them here on this side to keep the corrupt MB from destroying their country. I fear civil war may be the outcome if bloodshed is not stopped and soon! It is clear that the MB is trying to make Egypt into an Islamist State-theocracy and because they are clueless about how to grow the Egyptian economy the citizens rebelled against their governing. But the MB is not going quietly as recent events and the above pictures show and we must bring pressure on the Obama administration to step on the MB to cease and desist from targeting our Christian brothers and sisters there. If enough people raise their voices against this, Obama will have to cave to the pressure. Thank you, Joel, for your speaking out to help our Christians friends there!

2. Joel,

   I’m confused by this. In what way does Obama “support” the Muslim Brotherhood? He supported the removal of Morsi from power through an illegal coup d’état. He has stood by and let them kill the Muslim Brotherhood in the streets. What else do you actually want him to do to the Muslim Brotherhood?

   I quite agree with the call to prayer for the church, but like most I am very disturbed by what is happening in Egypt.

3. (updated )

   James,

   Thanks for your e-mail. Let me try to answer your question as best I can.

   The narrative that you have articulated is essentially identical to the narrative of the transparently left-wing American media. So I will assume you have primarily been informed by it. It may sound cliché to simply point to “the left-wing media” and claim bias, but the consistent narrative from every Egyptian Christian that I am in communication with, is substantially different from what I am hearing and reading in the American mainstream media. This isn’t to say that the Egyptian military is perfect or that there is not blood on the hands of the military as well, but for the most part, the narrative of my Egyptian contacts is that the news we are getting is deeply one-sided, even inaccurate. According to these Christians, the American media has largely fallen into the propaganda ploy of the Brotherhood. There is an old Arab proverb that says, “He strikes me and then goes ahead and cries.” I think, to some degree, this is the ploy of the Brotherhood right now. Again, that is not to say that the military has done nothing wrong, but the propaganda of the Muslim Brotherhood spokesperson Gedad El-Haddad, who just tweeted today, “Our peacefulness is our strength and we will never be dragged in violence” is just purely and patently absurd.

   You ask how the Obama admin is supporting the Brotherhood? First, lets be clear; the Muslim Brotherhood has a long history of violence and radicalism. It is quite clear for anyone to examine if they choose. If one reads the writings of Sayyed Qutb, Hassan Al Banna or Yousef al Qaradawi, the modern day spiritual leader of the Brotherhood, it is clear that this is not the kind of group that we should support. These are not moderates by any stretch of the imagination. So the Obama administration began their initial support of the Brotherhood by whitewashing their past and present day aspirations, goals and nature thus marginalizing true moderates while empowering these radicals. Then the administration supported the results of the alleged election. They should have rejected support for the Brotherhood as adamantly as they reject the leadership of any other radical regime, despite the facade of an election. The Present Iranian regime claims to have won the elections, but we do not support them. Why the contradiction? There is abundant anecdotal evidence from within Egypt that the Brotherhood never even won the elections in the first place. Many Egyptians believe that the US admin specifically inserted itself into the elections pushing for a false Brotherhood victory. Whether or not this is true, only God knows. But what we do know is that no sooner did they come to power that they began overriding other portions of the government and constitution, essentially functioning as a dictatorship. Most disturbing to most Egyptians was the extreme and overt cronyism of the Brotherhood. In other words, the Brotherhood-led government openly supported members of its own party, but refused many of the same benefits to other parties or groups. Yet despite the dictatorial stance they immediately assumed, and despite the abundance of cronyism, the Obama-Admin continued to support and fund them. They did so, even though the overwhelming majority of Egyptians were thoroughly opposed to the Brotherhood leadership, as became so obvious in the most recent Revolution.

   As an example of what frustrated many Egyptians, during Morsi’s rule, lines at the gas pumps were sometimes hours long. Prices were exorbitant. After Morsi fell, they found pipelines running into Gaza. This fuel is all subsidized by foreign governments. Morsi put Hamas above his own people. Consequently, the long lines and exorbitant prices ended the day Morsi fell. You get the picture. The US was supporting an overtly Islamist government and refuses to acknowledge its error.

   The Egyptian people are very upset with the US. If the Obama Admin does not apologize and modify our stance, making it clear that we are opposed to the Brotherhood, we will lose the Egyptian people. There is already talk of Egypt turning from the US and looking to Russia for new patronage.

   The narrative is that if the Egyptians elected the Brotherhood, they should live with it. This is why Time magazine recently called Egyptians the world’s worst democrats. But every democratic form of government assumes a level of accountability of its leaders. The Brotherhood immediately violated far too many aspects of democracy as soon as they came into power. And so, as the military should have, they removed them. They carried out the will of the Egyptian people. And now the Brotherhood continues to show its true face. Yet not once has the Obama administration condemned the actions of the Brotherhood specifically. Instead, they remain aloof and only condemn violence in general, further propagating the false narrative of moral equivalency.

   You can also read this article which seems to confirm the reports that I have been receiving:
   http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/17/egypts-embattled-coptic-church-lashes-out-at-western-media-for-giving-political-cover-to-terrorist-and-bloody-groups/

   I hope that this has helped.

   Blessings,
   Joel

4. Joel, now is the time when we have to trust God for the miraculous, and we have a firm foundation in standing on (Is. 19:19-21). We also have to trust that (Rom. 8:28) is being fullfilled even now there in Egypt – no matter what it looks like in the natural. I pray that God will give us eyes to see into the Spiritual realm in order that we may know His plan for expanding His kingdom there in that land of darkness. It is when we are interceding for His will to be done that we truly see miracle answers to our prayers. This is the day when God truly needs faithful intercessors on behalf of His Kingdom – only believe!

5. What we do not know impacts on us.

   Given the recent tit for tat, between Cairo & Ankara (Ambassadors being recalled), I would feel better about who is calling the tune that Erdogan is dancing to.

   I have this:
   http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/16/us-turkey-gulen-analysis-idUSBRE97F0KK20130816

6. A miracle:
   Egyptian military chief vows to rebuild Coptic Churches

   Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08/16/egyptian-military-chief-vows-to-rebuild-coptic-churches/#ixzz2cFluXSYA

7. Actually, the Obama Administration came out forcefully in support of the MB. The Obama Administration and his allies in the media put on a full court press campaign stating that the Muslim Brotherhood is “moderate” and just like any other “political machine”. This was reverberated by David Kirpatrick in the NYTimes in 2012. Here is the direct quote: “They are not violent by nature, and they have over the last couple of decades evolved more and more into a moderate — conservative but religious, but moderate — regular old political force. I find that a lot of the liberal fears of the Brotherhood are somewhat outside. That said, you know, you don’t know what their ultimate vision of what the good life looks like. But in the short term, I think they just want to win elections.”

   Obama himself stated that the MB was a moderate political force. Jay Carney said that they were a moderate political force. This was the line that came out of the White House and was repeated throughout the media. To find this, you just have to Google Obama and Muslim Brotherhood. In fact, there are MB consultants that have worked directly with the White House. CAIR is a major presence in Washington and is a terrorist organization. They have helped draft the line about the MB.

8. Joel, I took the liberty of tweeting this page to Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, and MEP Daniel Hannan.

   I admit I was brusque, but when things are in flux to the extent they are, I conclude good manners to be a distraction.

9. Thanks David.

10. From Vashon Island, and on Facebook:

    THE “ARAB SPRING”
    And the Plight of the Coptic Christian

    Coptic is the Pharoes’ name for “Egyptian,“ a little appreciated echo of the fact that all of Egypt was once a Coptic, Christian nation. For seven centuries Egypt was a Christian nation, until the Arab Islamic invasion in the seventh century. When President Obama came to Cairo in 2009 for his first major speech on foreign affairs, he thought his charisma would be enough, as he attempted to appease the Islamists with his talk of America being their friend, all the while ignoring the plight of the Christians of the Middle East, who have been the bridge between the West and Arab cultures since the 17th century.

    It was Coptic and Arab Christians who acted as translators of the greatest works of arts, literature, civilization, theater, and cinema, just as did Jews living in the Arab world. They made huge strides in bringing modern ideas, including democratic ideas, to the Islamic dominated world, but just as the Jews before them, Christians are now facing eviction from the Arab world, and this is not only a loss for the West but mostly for Arab Muslims. It is also a crime against humanity.

    Scores of Christians are being consumed in the conflagration that is taking place in Egypt and Syria. In Egypt some Coptic Christians have been burned beyond recognition defending sixty some churches that have been burned to the ground, even as Ambassador Patterson continues her attempts at a reconciliation between the the Muslim Brotherhood conducting this devastation and the Egyptians who revolted against the Brotherhood’s rule.

    Once again the American administration attempts to ally itself against those fighting for a secular Arab world, with the odd philosophy in place that thinks we can appease the radical Muslims into actually liking us, all the while ignoring the fact that most Muslims living in these countries have had enough of radical Islam, and would prefer a secular state.

    Egypt’s fourteen million Christians, the original descendants of the pharaohs, are once again being singled out, while the American administration has aligned itself with their persecutors. Over the past fourteen centuries, Muslims invaders of Egypt have forcibly converted most of the population, except for those stubborn Coptic Christians who stood up to the persecution and threats, only to have America side with the militant Islamic Brotherhood.

    This madness that has taken over the mind of the present American administration is beyond comprehension, but is also indicative of the long history of our failure to understand the Arab mind. Meanwhile, our Christian brothers and sisters throughout Egypt and the Middle East, are paying the price of America’s greed for oil, power, and control. This philosophy of conquest has become our dominant foreign policy, while we ignore the long term consequences on the lives of fourteen million Coptic Christians.

    Love in Christ,
    Abbot Tryphon

11. Thanks Joel for the long response. I appreciate your taking the time to answer, and I can see where you are coming from, even if I don’t think it is entirely justified. I think the Obama administration has been trying to support the move towards democracy and engage the political parties in Egypt, including the MB, which is at best only a qualified “support” for the MB. The MB did win an election, which was recognized internationally, claimed to have become moderate, and needed to be given a chance. Even if we don’t agree with them, they were a major player on the scene and had won an election. I have difficulty believing that the military would have acted against the MB without US approval.

12. James, there has to be more to democracy than a ballot box.

    The problem is, too much politics has entered the classroom. The effect is this: The responsibilities of governing have been transferred from the populace to a small group that purports to govern for the benefit of all.

    This has been tried before, and frankly the track record is woe, misery & pain when too much power is placed in too few hands.

13. James,

    I’m a bit confused by your comments. You began by protesting that the Obama administration is not supporting the Brotherhood:

    “In what way does Obama “support” the Muslim Brotherhood?”

    But in you subsequent comment you shift to defending / justifying their support for the Brotherhood.

    ?????

    The simple fact is that the present US administration has openly legitimized the MB, and they did so long before they ever were elected. With the MB’s background and openly stated goals, this was absolutely inexcusable. Only weeks before the election, Muhammad Morsi sat next his imam at a massive Brotherhood rally giving tacit support for the imam’s calls and the chants of the crowds that they would soon die as martyrs by the millions as they marched to Jerusalem to establish the Caliphate. Your claim that such groups “should be given a chance” betrays a high level of either ignorance or blindness. Adolph Hitler was legitimately elected into office. Jesus commanded us to be as wise as serpents. While politics is not my cup of tea, as I have little faith in its ability to effect real change, I am also aware of the fact that an intelligent foreign policy requires a realism that far supersedes the idealism of the American left.

    Blessings,
    Joel

14. Joel, I am neither ignorant or blind thanks. I am also not convinced by either the right wing as the left. But I have spent a lot of time speaking to people in the Middle East and I know the history of our country in the region. It is complex and we have to tread delicately there. We don’t have a great record of intervention in that part of the world, and often what we do legitimizes and empowers the Islamists and we get blow back. I think what Obama was hoping to do was get them to become a responsible government, like we have seen other terrorist groups change once they embrace democracy (e.g. the IRA in Norther Ireland). That way you can hope to influence and curtail the worst. Naive I agree, but not indefensible. But right now he is sitting by watching the MB get gunned down and arrested without barely a condemnation. We give massive military aid and could cut that at a stroke, so whatever is happening right now is happening with Obama’s tacit approval. So thats what I think his support amounts to. I realize that what you wanted to see was no attempt to engage them at all, and to denounce them from the start. If that had happened don’t you think that the Islamists in the region, inclusing Turkey, would now be blaming us for what is happening in Egypt?

15. Ahhh… “Blowback” I didn’t realize I was speaking to a disciple of Ron Paul ala Robert Pape: http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/ron-pauls-saul-alinsky/

16. [Greets, JT. What you see below was discovered on the big www !]

    THE BACKGROUND OBAMA CAN’T COVER UP

    (Each human is part of this “River.” Are you an “oxbow lake”?)

    Islam, part of the Living River of History, affected even the 2012 US election!
    The “headwaters” of this River was Adam, according to Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc.
    In the OT (Deut. 28), “tributaries” wanting to join the River are blessed while “distributaries” wanting to flow away from it are cursed. Those wishing to totally separate from the fresh Living River become polluted, dying “oxbow lakes.”
    In the OT we see Israelites repeatedly flowing away from God, then repenting and returning to Him; we also see heathen “oxbow lakes” creating their own little “gods” and being allowed by God to plunder and kill the erring Israelites.
    Then, at the right time, the Living River took on new life with the arrival of the Promised One who offers “living water.”
    In the 7th century Islam, drawing from both OT and NT, chose to be a distributary away from this River. Many scholars have viewed it as the final Antichrist: note “scourge” (Isa. 28), “Assyrian” (Mic. 5), “Euphrates” (Rev. 9) etc.
    God will allow this “scourge” to temporarily persecute and kill apostate Jews (JINOs) and Christians (CINOs). Jews, especially in “entertainment,” seem more expert in apostasy than Christians since Jews have been at it 2000 years longer than Christians have (Google “jewishfaces.com/porn.html”) – but Christians apparently want to catch up to the Jews!
    It’s apparent that others will join Islam in its end-time inquisition; its great oil wealth can captivate many leaders and already we’re seeing apostate American leaders being bribed into turning against true American patriots.
    Those who ignore (or try to dilute or destroy) the God-ordained Living River of History will be swept down it to an ocean made by their own never-ending tears of agony and despair.
    The good news is that American JINOs & CINOs can overcome the “scourge” discussed above. The secret is found by checking out “II Chronicles 7:14” & “John 3:16” on the web.
    There’s still time – and freedom – to Google or MSN “Obama Promotes Public Sex,” “Obama a Black-Slavery Avenger?,” “Dangerous Radicals of the Religious Right,” “Pretrib Rapture Politics,” “Mikey Weinstein, Jesus-Basher,” “Christ’s return is NOT imminent,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” “Pretrib Rapture Pride,” and (for dessert) “Pretrib Rapture Stealth.”
    In light of Matthew 7:2, if we tolerate Christian leaders who lie to us and steal from us, we shouldn’t be surprised if God allows us to have political leaders who lie to us and steal from us!

    A Kansas Patriot (who won FIRST PLACE over 2200 entrants in a nationwide Americanism essay contest)

17. Thanks for the link Joel. I had never heard of him before, but his ideas, yes of course. Almost any reader of history and politics today would concur. I thought it was only George Bush who still believed that AQ attacked our country because they are jealous of our way of life …cars, pools, iphones, constitution, right to free speech, and the vote etc.

    Having said that you are right about the MB and I would also support a clearer line from the White House against the MB, but I could not support the brutality and human rights abuses going on and we need to distance purselves from it. It needs a political resolution. Ultimately we achieve nothing if we support oppression and brutality, which we have in the region for decades now, including in Egypt itself of course.

    Blessings

18. Plenty of poison to be drained from the swamp.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/356306/attacking-enemies-islam-andrew-c-mccarthy

19. Hi James,

    Actually brutality and aggression achieving political solutions are normative throughout human history. There is no politcal solution in Egypt without brutal aggression. The supporters of the MB, Hezbollah, AQ and the other theocratic groups do not separate politics and religion. This region cannot achieve a politcal solution without a Western Style democracy which cracks down on the theocrats. The problem is that most of the people are theocrats which support an Islamic government. This is why Soviet Style fascism has been the norm in this region. Saddam was able to control his population through terror. Mubarak kept his population in control due to terror. Quadaffi through Terror. The saudi Regime through money and a police state. Western people that do not understand the region always talk about a “political solution”. Unfortunately there is no politcal solution. Finally, the Turks are a very different people group. Even the Turks run a virtual police state.

20. Joel, many thanks ! You speak truth plainly as can be the truth is usually simple.
    James has pointed out, the situation is complex but really not when one is well -acquainted with Islam.According to Islamic law, a Caliph can never be deposed no matter what crimes he may be guilty of just as long as he remains a Muslim. the greatest crime for a Muslim moderate or otherwise is to leave Islam. it is an ideology based on fear, all based on their prophet ( or whatever as Robert Spencer’s research has led him to doubt Muhammad ever even existed !) So very strange when the Arabs began to rebel against Musim tyrants.

    Suddenly as I came to this page it occurred to me, these
    nurned buildings are of course not only the sign of terror and persecution.I have been torn the last week or so more than ever to see the suffering of Christians in Egypt and Syria.
    But thinking about it now, they are but the fruits of human hands with the need to build a ” temple”and yet never has The Lord allowed so many ancient churches to be burned before !
    This terrible persecution is OPENLY IGNORED by the Western leaders most of whom pretend to be Christians, as Hitler did to the easily deceived luke-warm Christians of his day.
    let us pray lead to revival .That many Muslims born into families serving allah( Baal) will come to Jesus before the last trumpet !
    As you say we must pray for the Copts, the true historical Egyptians, who believed the message of Jesus long before we in the West had even heard the Gospel, that they may stand in the evil day and not lose strength. I pray the deceitful plans of Obama will be exposed and can no longer be hidden by darkness.
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/08/more-on-benghazi-from-a-former-muslim-brotherhood-member/

    Blessings and strength to all Let us pray for each other. All true Christians will now wherever they are be experiencing a type of persecution or devlish attacks in their lives. Some as in Egypt worse than others.Without prayer and using the sword, The Word of God in defense and offense we cannot stand !

21. Here’s an insider expose of the realities tat most Western Media will never show.

22. Here’s an insider expose of the realities that most Western Media will never cover. The Muslim Brotherhood must be stopped.

23. Awesome post, Joel.

    Love and appreciate you. Glad you could use the Twitter image! GET ON TWITTER! 😉

24. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/16/egyptian-police-recapture-islamist-town-delga

    This shows the true face of the Muslim Brotherhood. It is shocking.