The Underground Episode 51: Why is the World’s Attention Returning to the Middle East and Israel?

  • Steven Vance
    Posted at 21:49h, 01 September

    Hi Joel!
    I am trying to get a group together for One King 2017. Do you know where I can find the video they made for One King 2016? It was really amazing, but I can’t seem to locate it. It would be a great tool for inspiring people to sign up…
    Great program this week! I can’t wait to hear about your upcoming trip!

  • Frank Cooper
    Posted at 23:29h, 01 September

    Joel, Would you agree or not that the Daniel Goat/Ram prophecy, as it is and end times prophecy, is now starting to be fulfilled? Turkey is moving west. The Kurds are being at least some what destroyed and therefor the bear can rise on one side. Iran can push east with its new special forces, plus as required. I realise that we haven’t yet seen Iran (Persia) move yet but it appears to be heading in this general direction?

  • Joel
    Posted at 23:50h, 01 September


    Its possible. Time will tell.

  • Joel
    Posted at 23:51h, 01 September

    The older promo video?

  • Jeff Marshall
    Posted at 14:16h, 02 September

    Good stuff Joel. I really enjoyed the OneKing trip this last year & know it would have great impact on anyone looking at going this next year. And yes, it’s about application of these truths, “so how now do we live?” Even in my own life/walk/calling, I see the Lord moving these things forward & showing me things He has been developing towards it for years. Lord willing, Next year for me it’s a trip to Iraq among Muslims, & maybe the next year it’s one way airplane tickets for our family, Lord willing. Anyways, for anyone looking at and considering the OneKing trip, I will say you will be blessed. It was awesome.
    God Bless,

  • Steven Vance
    Posted at 16:48h, 02 September

    Yes. The older one. It was very compelling because it focused on our need to love all groups in Israel, not just the Jews. In my circles, that is an important fact!

  • Jay
    Posted at 19:44h, 02 September

    Hey Joel,
    I highly recommend your new DVD Set, “The Antichrist, Turkey, and the Coming Caliphate”($25). The 5 teaching sessions are some of the best insights on the whole end of the age drama regarding Turkey, the Anti-Christ, Ezekiel 38 & 39, etc. This is a great resource for friends who are trying to get a grip on these subjects. We have bought four copies and are simply passing them around. Well done!

    Jay – Virginia

  • Joel
    Posted at 19:55h, 02 September

    I loved that promo. I will see if it is still floating around.

  • Steven Vance
    Posted at 23:14h, 02 September

    Thanks Joel! I really appreciate it. I know you have a very busy schedule.

  • Abdullah
    Posted at 02:53h, 03 September

    In a general sense, Mid Eastern people consider you (i.e the west) as the Rome.
    It just a fact the the west is the Rome. People of The Rome in the past are the same people of the West (Europe and North America) today. There are many hadiths about this.

  • Troy Geddes
    Posted at 12:56h, 03 September

    Ok Joel;

    You got me to laugh out loud on that one.. @11:45 “Those pesky Jews.. they are making me look bad!” I will use that one in the future because it makes the point you were teaching so well…

    “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone.” Ez. 36:22

  • John Aladeifa
    Posted at 16:25h, 03 September

    Bro Joel,God bless and increase you.As a Nigerian how do I get the dvd.

  • John Aladeifa
    Posted at 16:31h, 03 September

    If the prophecy that is more than 2000years suddenly manifesting now,anybody that is not taking the holy bible serious do so to his or her own peril.more than a book.waoooo!!!!!

  • Fran
    Posted at 21:54h, 03 September

    You, I can understand….but for your guests I need CC.

  • Donna Eaton
    Posted at 19:00h, 04 September

    Joel, can you recommend or suggest any teaching material available (DVD’s, books etc) that would be a good place to begin educating oneself on how to share the gospel with Muslims in our neighborhoods? I know there are lots of books, Utube videos etc out there but I don’t have a clue what are right and wrong methods/ways to interact and dialogue with them. Thanks for any help you can offer.

  • Joel
    Posted at 19:13h, 04 September

    Hi Donna,

    My intention is to begin doing more programs on this topic. I recommend having some of the Dear Muslims Friend book on hand, as well as some nice New Testaments or perhaps just the Gospel of Matthew or John etc. After this, it is simply a matter of getting to know them just like anyone else. Always look for opportunities to pray for their needs and give them the aforementioned Gospels and book as a gift. Invite them to your home for dinner etc. These are some basic starting points. A good simple book is also Engaging Muslims by George Houssney. I also will have many teachings available soon through I2Ministries. Sorry this is so brief. I hope it helps.


  • Donna Eaton
    Posted at 04:19h, 05 September

    Hi Joel,
    Very helpful. Seems simple yet effective. Perhaps as Christians, me anyway, tend to be intimidated by their extremism and commitment to their religion, thus making it seem harder to reach out to them than it really is. I’ll check out the materials you mentioned and looking forward to any programs you do on the subject.

    Do you think it is necessary to read the Quran to be effective in sharing the Gospel with them? I have a copy by Usama Dakdok but have not read it yet.

    Many blessings,

  • Joel
    Posted at 12:01h, 05 September

    On the surface, it is not critical. If you make this your main ministry, then yes. If you get into much discussion, then yes. It is important to know a bit about the basics of Islam, but not necessarily to know the Quran. Just know that the majority of Muslims you meet will be very nice and normal people.

  • Carol Barrows
    Posted at 15:37h, 05 September

    Joel, if I would like to donate money for bibles to go to the Middle East, how would I go about doing that? Thank you

  • Tamaira
    Posted at 16:22h, 05 September

    Joel, This is not on topic, but I wondered if you had any insight. Adnan Oktar had a member of the Knesset was a guest on his show and he told this member that Turkey would rebuild the temple for Israel. And now They named a High Priest and did a barley sacrifice! Would Turkey actually do that? They seem to be making amends .

  • Joel
    Posted at 22:34h, 05 September

    Hi Carol,

    Specifically Bible distribution, I do not have the ideal source. In general, the ministries on the right of my site are great ministries doing great evangelistic and disciple making work in the Middle East. Specifically GCM and FAI.


  • David Roberts
    Posted at 03:55h, 06 September

    Hi Joel, I was just dealing with someone who was saying the Antichrist must be a Jew because of Daniel 11:37 “the God of His fathers”. I said the Hebrew “elohe avothau” can be translated two ways: The God of his fathers or the gods of his fathers. The second would fit well with all the gods in the Ka’aba that the Arabs worshipped. The first would work if the Antichrist had Christian Gentile ancestry, like the Syrians, Assyrians, Turks and Arabs do. Either way “the God of” would refer to the Biblical God and “the gods of” would refer pagan gods of the Gentiles.

    How would you answer that objection?

    For myself Revelation is the clearest proof. The beast comes out of ‘the sea’, vision language for the nations/Gentiles while the false prophet comes out of ‘ha’arets’ (the Holy Land) and looks like the lamb of God, but speaks like the dragon, what a perfect description of Nabi Isa of Islam who breaks the cross, abolishes the Jizya and beheads the saints of the most High.

  • Linda
    Posted at 04:40h, 06 September

    Joel. For Carol Barrows, who is interested in the distribution of the Bible……you had an underground episode with a man who gives out sim cards with the Bible on it. But I do not remember the name of the ministry. Carol may be interested?

  • Joel
    Posted at 10:13h, 06 September

    There are a few ways to understand this phrase. The phrase in Hebrew is always used of the God of the Bible, most often with the addition of “the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” This could simply be a statement that the Antichrist denies the God of the Bible, which is in keeping with how John the Apostle interprets it in 1 John 2:22: He denies the Father. It could be an indicator that he is indeed a child of Abraham, though perhaps through Ishmael etc. though I don’t think the phrase and particularly the larger context demands this. It could also be as you said, a reference to the plural gods of his ancient fathers. Regardless, it says he worships a god of fortresses or forces. even if he is ethnically of Jewish descent, he certainly does not practice Judaism. He is not a false Jewish Messiah as some of late have sought to argue.

    Folks often zero in on one aspect of this portion of Daniel, to claim that he is a Jew, or a homosexual, or a humanist, or this or that. But the larger statement must be taken as a whole. I take it to mean the he denies the God of the Bible (the Father), he denies the Son (the desire of woman), he denies every other god, but he does worship a particular god of forces, or war. This would describe a Muslim better than anything else.

    God knows best.

  • Marcus Maddox
    Posted at 04:27h, 07 September

    The idea that the Jewish nation as a whole will initially accept the False Messiah is supported by many, many scriptures.
    2 Thessalonians 2:9 2 Thessalonians 2:11 Matthew 24:24 Revelation 13:7
    Revelation 13:8
    And historically, examples abound of this predilection and desire to be ruled over by men. Such as asking for a king like the heathen nations around them , the acceptance of rule by Alexander the Great without a struggle, an invitation to the Romans to move in and decide an internal power struggle.
    I don’t see why you think anything has changed. Without Jesus this is the natural course of things. Are you giving to little credence to the supernatural forces at work at our Lords return ? Please ask yourself this as it isn’t a small matter i think.

  • Joel
    Posted at 11:24h, 07 September


    You are mixing two different issues into the discussion here. The Scriptures indicate that the State of Israel will come to rely on the Antichrist as what seems to be some kind of guarantor of their security. Isaiah 28 and 10 clearly point to this. They enter into a covenant of some kind with him. They come to rely on him. He deceives them. The leaders of Israel in particular fall for his ploys. This is an entirely different matter from what I am talking about here however, which is the claim of some that Antichrist will actually claim to be the prophesied and awaited Jewish Messiah and will be received as such by them. No where do the Scriptures ever indicate this. The Scriptures you cited indicate the Antichrist will do false miracles and mislead many etc. There are others in Daniel and Ezekiel as well. Although this will no doubt impact many within Israel, it will by no means cause the whole state to fall for his religion and take the Mark of the Beast etc., as this would clearly collide with Romans 11 which holds that at the end of the tribulation, all Israel will be saved. The Antichrist will quickly turn and betray Israel, lead the invasion agains her and carry out the abomination. He is their great persecutor etc. He will be viewed favorably at the onset, as he comes with deception and guile etc., but he quickly becomes their tormentor. I hope this makes sense.


  • good4u
    Posted at 12:55h, 07 September

    What Marcus mistakenly asserts is extremely common misunderstanding in the church. Many, many, many think this and as Joel states it is a total misconception The Antichrist will never claim messiahship. Ever. As Joel makes clear, Israel will come to rely upon Antichrist as their protector against their enemies who seek their demise. Not as Israel’s Messiah.

    The Prophet Isaiah scolds Israel for signing the infamous “covenant of death” with Antichrist and that covenant is some kind of pledge of security against their enemies. Scriptures could not be more emphatic on this point. Don’t make Scripture into something it does not say.


  • Marcus Maddox
    Posted at 01:18h, 08 September

    Yes Joel it does. I think in principle we agree. Thanks for answering.

  • Marcus Maddox
    Posted at 01:45h, 08 September

    One thing I would like to clarify; when is said “the nation as a whole”
    I meant in majority and not in entirety. Essentially the body politic.
    And what I mean by this, is a situation similar to the early church, in which is has been estimated by some that as much as 25 % of the population of Jerusalem were believers in Yeshua by 70 AD but at no time gained a majority or control in any political sense.
    Also, I do believe all of Israel will eventually see their mistake when the anti-Christ sits in the the Holy Place claiming to be God.
    I think our differences may arise because the Jewish idea of messiah differs so much from our Christian concept of Him as divine.
    They even have the concept of multiple messiahs which would of course preclude the divine for these individuals.
    I think it is only a matter of degree we are dividing over here.
    I do think there will be Jewish proponents pushing for his acceptance as the messiah although I also think it is possible this will be restricted to an elite group of the powerful and well connected.
    There is some reason to think this from some passages in Daniel.
    At least that’s how I see it. Thanks again for entertaining various points of view

  • Jeff Marshall
    Posted at 13:36h, 08 September

    That is Wayne with you are referring to (don’t remember which Underground episode it was exactly?). He is in the Balkan Corridor & has Been sharing Christ with Muslim refugees passing through from The Middle East to Europe throughout this refugee crisis and displacement of Muslims (as well as Christians & Yazidis) from their homelands. It’s like $5 per digital SIM Card with the full Bible & a Gospel presentation with answers to common questions, etc.,
    God Bless,

  • Joel
    Posted at 13:43h, 08 September

    Right. I highly recommend the ministry of Antessor. You can continue to give to them through the link on the right side of the page that says Eagles of Peace.

  • good4u
    Posted at 19:18h, 08 September


    I also could be mistaken here where Marcus states that Antichrist will” claim” he is God as opposed to a “god,” a small “g”. I am unsure of the original Greek in the Scripture source texts here but to be consistent with the pattern of Antichrist, it appears that Antichrist will NOT claim to be the God of Israel. If this is what Marcus is referring to in his response in 2 Thessalonians from the Apostle Paul’s teaching from poor English Bible translations.

    Consistent with the pattern of Antichrist, he will “display” himself (I like to say strut around like) he is a god. To me, this would be a better rendering of the Thessalonians passage and a clearer more accurate picture of the behavior of this most despicable man. Just another thing I hear lots when talking about End Times.


  • Obed
    Posted at 17:53h, 09 September


    I was wondering why in Daniel 7 that the Lord in mentioning the beast kingdoms would have skipped Rome in that chapter? I understand why he would do it in Daniel 2 given the prophecy was to old Neby concerning his kingdom and I understand that it is alluded to in Rev. 17. Just trying to have a biblical answer for my beliefs.

    Greatly enjoying your work,


  • Joel
    Posted at 18:54h, 09 September

    Hi Obed,

    First, because Daniel 7 is simply a reiteration of what was already established in Daniel 2. Second, because the Babylon-centric nature of the vision is consistent, being that the Jews were overwhelmingly yet in exile there. Third, because it is the glory a king to conceal matter and the Lord specifically sates in Daniel 12 that these things would be sealed until the last days.

  • Joel
    Posted at 18:55h, 09 September

    I think he is sitting in the seat of God, displaying Himself to be as if God or superior to God.

  • Obed
    Posted at 19:33h, 09 September

    Sounds good and makes sense to me. Thanks for your response.

  • good4u
    Posted at 19:37h, 09 September

    Yes, the behavior is the consistent pattern of Antichrist showing himself (i.e., display) as if he were a god. As you say, Joel, the culmination of his display will be when he sits himself in the seat of God within the third temple. This “act” is the definitive turning point prophesied by both Jesus (abomination that causes desolation/Matthew 24) and Paul (sit in the seat of God/2 Thess.) as the mid-point of the 70th week of Daniel that actually begins the Tribulation of the Saints. Then we will actually be able to count down readily upon when Jesus will return to rescue his church!

    I so think that our English translations of 2 Thessalonians regarding this passage is misleading somewhat as the word “claim” is unclear causing it to be possibly either verbal or behavior. Though Antichrist’s will likely never come right out and say, “I am God” it will be clear to all by his blasphemous behavior that is, in fact, who he believes he is, a god.


  • Joel
    Posted at 01:42h, 10 September

    Right, it doesn’t actually even say “claim to be” so as much as “display himself as.”

  • Marcus Maddox
    Posted at 04:31h, 10 September

    I would like to make a sideways move and ask for your opinion Joel, about the refugees who flee from Jerusalem during the time of the abomination of desolation. Jesus said this will happen of course.

    I’m thinking that they will flee from Jerusalem , down through the valley of Achor and then further down to the Jordan river valley. From there, follow the river upstream into the Galilee, rather than down stream and on into into the barren waste around Petra.

    I’m thinking they may even cross the Jordan into the state of Jordan before moving northward along the river.
    To me, this seems more practical from their point of view and seems to agree with several scriptures.

    “Therefore, behold, I will allure her, Bring her into the wilderness And speak kindly to her. 15″Then I will give her her vineyards from there, And the valley of Achor as a door of hope. And she will sing there as in the days of her youth, As in the day when she came up from the land of Egypt. 16″It will come about in that day,” declares the LORD, “That you will call Me Ishi And will no longer call Me Baali…”
    Hosea 2:14-16

    I’m thinking it will be a retracing of Israel’s steps as they entered the promised land. This would bring them back up into the southern parts of Syria or what was called Bashan in ancient days.

    And would also take them across the Jordan river.

    Revelation 12:14-16

    “But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15 Then from the mouth of the serpent spewed water like a river to overtake the woman and sweep her away in the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth to swallow up the river that had poured from the dragon’s mouth.

    In Exodus God refers to Moses and Aaron as eagles wings. Maybe the resurrected witnesses are the wings of a great eagle. The timing and terminology from Isaiah and Revelation seem to match.

    If the people of God flee Jerusalem at the death of the two witnesses and the drought enforced by their word was broken at the same time. (“the dragon opened his mouth”) The people will have been fleeing for three and one half days up the Jordan river valley while the flood from the Serpent’s mouth may be causing intense rain near mount Hermon and the Galilee/Golan area.
    The great earth quake at the resurrection of the two witnesses after three and one half days may open the earth to divert the flood and allow God’s people to cross the Jordan into territory geographically and/or politically difficult for the anti-Christ to follow.

    Then after the times ,time and half a time are finished, the anti-Christ, perhaps having destroyed Jerusalem in his anger, may mass his army to strike out from Megeddo ,after the “Woman” in her protected area. Maybe Jesus see this as an attack upon himself and his army of believers and finally defeats his rival. Maybe.

    I realize this is all pure conjecture but isn’t eschatology really all conjecture of some stripe ? What we need is conjecture with a lot of scriptural support.At least that’s my opinion.

    One more scripture on this point. Just something to think about:

    A voice of uproar from the city, a voice from the temple, The voice of the LORD who is rendering recompense to His enemies. 7″Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. 8″Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons.…
    Isaiah 66:6-8
    This scripture isn’t talking about 1948 or the birth of Jesus. This is talking about the beginning of the resurrections that are to happen to each, in his own turn.
    I believe Revelation 12:4 is a matching scripture
    My opinion again.
    Thanks for letting me vent. I know you love the Word. If I wrong please point it out.

  • David Tutwiler
    Posted at 04:19h, 18 September

    What do you all think about the US bombing Syrian government troops today? It’s no secret the US neocon’s and the dem’s have been trying to overthrow Assad since this all began five years ago. Now we’ve finally gotten away with firing a significant shot at him. Are we itching to start WW3? How long will Putin put up with this? I’ve said all along the US and other Sunni powers created ISIS and now looking at the circumstances of this episode, it seems likely this was an opportunity given to ISIS by our warplanes to take Deir el-Zour from Assad.

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