• Steven Vance
    Posted at 20:57h, 21 June

    Such an amazing and challenging underground session. I was particularly struck by your comments about vindicating the goodness of God. Thanks so much! Just a head’s up: the website posted at the bottom of the screen while you were talking ends in .com but it should end in .org. You have it written correctly under the link on the website, but it is wrong in the video.

  • alan webb
    Posted at 22:14h, 21 June


    Really enjoyed Reggie… very, very informative… wow, look forward to seeing him again on your program… keep up the good work… God bless!!
    Cypress, TX

  • Rachel
    Posted at 23:37h, 21 June


    After the 25-minute mark you say: “The thousand years…is a rich time. It’s not a time when he returns and boom: this rainbow cloud goes across the…a wave goes across the earth and everything’s perfect immediately.”

    I am really curious as to what made you choose that description of Jesus’ return because about 50 years ago I had a dream in which a rainbow shot across the sky and opened up revealing the returned Lord for everyone to see. All eyes saw it and were either super happy or scared to death. I’ve never forgotten that dream. I agree that Jesus’ return probably won’t be like that, but it was a good dream and I was startled when I hear you describe it! Were you basing your “rainbow cloud wave across the earth” on anything?

  • Joel
    Posted at 00:44h, 22 June

    Thanks Steve. I fixed it. Not sure what happened there.

  • Joel
    Posted at 00:45h, 22 June


    I was just being silly. My point is that Jesus does not transform the world instantaneously like some kind of wizard. There is a very real gradual transformation.

  • Jeff Marshall
    Posted at 01:49h, 22 June

    Brother, this was good stuff! This is the kind of explaining & further counter-arguing (for lack of a better word) Amillineallism & all its questions I want. Reggie is indeed a wellspring of knowledge & depth. Love it bro! Keep it coming! See you in the City of the Great King soon! ????

    Not trying to insult you at all, so please don’t take it that way, but obviously the Lord uses symbolism & often time-lapsed & almost “hyperbole” or “over-exaggeration/over-emphasis” in dreams to make a point. You see this often in the dreams of Joseph, Jacob, Potiphar, etc. & I have seen in it in my own dreams through the yeArs. The best teaching on the Biblical case for dreams & their meanings & symbolism out there IMHO is in the late John Paul Jackson’s stuff online under “Dreamipedia”. On YouTube.
    God Bless,

  • OCcalif
    Posted at 02:35h, 22 June

    Thank you Joel and Reggie. I have been so blessed by the “Underground” presentations. I look forward to them each week- and this week I come away in awe and with humility after seeing more of God’s faithfulness, wisdom and mercy. Thanks again for all you are doing.

  • Jeanne T.
    Posted at 13:11h, 22 June

    “This whole age is about closing in on the Jew, and closing in on the nations.” – Reggie

    “It’s about us ultimately humbling ourselves…It’s about those of us who are Gentiles putting our heads down at the end of the age, humbling ourselves, and submitting to the plan as He defined it……” – Joel

    That sums it up in a nutshell. Thanks for having Reggie on again.

  • Troy
    Posted at 23:42h, 22 June


    This was really, really, really good. Thanks! I liked it for numerous reasons but most of all because it was so closely aligned with my understanding of the Hebrew Prophets. Thanks again for taking the time to introduce us to others who can help us put the pieces of this puzzle together. We live in extremely interesting days…


  • Lynn
    Posted at 01:40h, 23 June

    Hi Joel,
    This was such a blessing.
    To be able to have Bible Study at this depth was an enormous blessing.
    Oh, may the Lord forgive all my tardiness and enable me to love His Word so much more in these days.
    I ask that He would bless and keep you and your family, Reggie and his family in perfect peace, joy and strength in the days ahead.
    We serve a Great God.


  • Nelson Walters
    Posted at 02:41h, 23 June

    Again, you and Reggie provide such rich learning. Thank you. Heiser (in the “Unseen Realm”) postulates that the resurrected and transformed Church will replace the rule of the principalities and powers during the Millennium and that this is the ruling and reigning that is spoken of in the New Testament. It seems that Reggie’s view supports this as well. Did you go into further depth on this “off-camera?”

  • Joel
    Posted at 02:52h, 23 June

    Not so much, though I’ve heard Reggie talk about this before. Whenever he comes to town, I plan on trying to get him for a few shows. He has several topics that are pretty amazing that I would love to pick his brain on. Such a gift.

  • Sam
    Posted at 03:26h, 23 June

    I rejoice in the vindication of the Name, Hashem, who restores His people to the Land of the Everlasting Covenant, to make His statement and stamp upon the nations, precisely because His Word is at stake, and is in accordance with Genesis 17, Psalm 105, 1 Chronicles 16, Ezekiel 37, Ezekiel 38, and Deuteronomy 32….I did not hear one word pass from Reggie’s humble mouth that I did not concur with according to my limited understanding of the Scripture.

  • Howard
    Posted at 17:47h, 23 June

    Thanks again, Joel, for you and Reggie talking about the Millennial Kingdom. This hope was what God gave me when He saved me from the despair of a world that was not ‘getting better’ despite all the efforts of mankind.

    A way to understand the distinction, yet not separation, of the Church from Israel is that of priesthood. The Levites were brothers of the rest of the tribes, yet were called out in a unique way as priests, and their inheritance was YHVH Himself. They were not numbered with their brethren, but represented them all; they had no inheritance of their own, yet owned all things in YHVH through the way He had the other tribes ‘look after them’. Christians are priests of a different order from out of all the nations, yet still identify with our nations. During the Millennium, it could be that the Bride will minister corporately with the Lord over the various nations that we were part of. Anyway, as you way, we will find out later!

  • Marcus Maddox
    Posted at 22:52h, 23 June

    Sincere question;
    “but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
    “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
    I’m pretty literal when it comes to God’s word.
    I’m having trouble reconciling Jesus sitting on David’s throne in present day Jerusalem while believers are still in mortal bodies.
    Am I being to literal or do I just misunderstand what these two scriptures really mean.

  • Joel
    Posted at 23:43h, 23 June

    Believers who are in faith before he comes will have resurrected bodies. Jesus will clearly sit on a literal throne. Just too many passages that describe it.

  • linda keyes
    Posted at 11:13h, 24 June

    Joel, yes yes yes…. we got an out vote! I thought that maybe we Brits may have handed you ammunition against the EU theory. Alas, a friend texted me this morning saying she read on the net that, it was prophetical that England leave the EU, as when Russia attacks Israel, England will help them. (Totally confused face.)

  • Paul
    Posted at 18:00h, 24 June

    Hi Linda/Joel

    I praise God that we as the British people have come OUT of the EU, a totally corrupt,unelected anti-God system.
    It doesn’t make it the end time Beast system, as we know Joel and others have so clearly highlighted the fact that the Beast system will come out of the Muslim world.
    So I do see this as prophetic for the Uk, but not to back up an EU antichrist theory, just by the clear fact that the EU is anti-God, I mean even their building in Strasbourg is modeled on Brueghel’s painting of the Tower of Babel!! I mean how anti-God can you get?!

    A friend from Holland has sent me an article from ISRAEL TODAY, in which an article is titled: “EU applauds Anti-Semitic Libel, then gets rocked by UK vote” In other words Abbas is welcomed and applauded by the EU after his slanderous speech against Israel.
    The Word of God comes to mind: “He who curses my people (Israel) will be cursed, and he who blesses my people will be blessed.”

    Another important point to make, is that EU membership of Turkey will be accelerated next week…I am so glad the Uk is out of an institution that is inviting Turkey in…I mean TURKEY!!
    After all that Joel has said about where the nation of Turkey is headed, then its a good thing the Uk will give itself a chance of not being part of a “goat” nation upon the Day of the Lord!
    Stand with Israel UK!

    Shabbat Shalom

    Paul (United Kingdom- England)

  • Gary
    Posted at 06:52h, 25 June

    Thank you for posting this. My pilgrimage has taken several turns on was being interested in Luther at a young age when my dad was not a Christian dad. He was a German-Irish American, fought in WWII but never a spiritual leader in the home. I loved Martin Luther early on and had a love for Israel as well. At some point, when I did read Luther’s last writing On Jews, I realized here was a supposed Christian that lacked some part of clear theology and wondered why he missed seeing Jews crucial role. In coming across James Parkes The Conflict of the Synagogue and the Curch, I realized as to where a lot of Hebraic expression and thought began to split off from the assemblies. At the 19:35 minute mark, Reggie mentions the term “commonwealth’,” which exactly what tend to see the church as. I have come across this idea in other people’s writings like that of Dan Gruber and Daniel Juster and also FFOZ’s writings. Currently I really don’t see two covenants anymore but rather one where in this age where it is “looser and less binding” toward the Gentiles while the Gentiles as they are grafted in are to respect the original covenant. Something I read stated that the early church did not expand out to the Gentiles until about 14 years after Christ’s Ascension. It’s when it goes beyond Israel that the expectations toward certain laws are “less binding” as many require the actual Temple to be in existence. In being a counselor and dealing with grief some aspects have really more Eastern overtones, I also was interested in what Jews do. What do they do? They pray the Kaddish in which one line states in seeking God’s Kingdom to return. Somewhat similar to the LORD’s Prayer. In reading it, it totally made sense to me as to why in grief and loss we pray for this as it suggests our loved one’s again as well seeing Christ and His reign. Definitely do see the Millenial period as a time of Reconstruction. That was something I had to work through reading Jay Adam’s view on this. He is a Amillenialist. Would love to see you debate him on this issue, Joel or even Reggie!

  • good4u
    Posted at 23:38h, 25 June

    Hi Joel,

    Sorry I’m late to the response section to your latest episode, but I now finally corrected my Internet connectivity problems on my own, I might add. Anyway, this time with Reggie Kelly has been one of my favorite presentations, so far. You both dive spiritually deep where most pastors fear to tread with local congregations. For those of us here who need the challenge of growing in God’s plan for Israel, his church and the vindication of God who has a statement to make to his divine family, earthly family and those who have rebelled against that plan was a learning time for me just watching you two converse in this episode. I will take time to watch this again and I’m sure I’ll learn even more. This was worth the wait as I was frustrated all week because I could see two of my favorite bible teachers hashing it out with each other so I could learn more. Thank you.

    Please, as time permits in both your schedules to have Reggie come back for another visit.


  • Rita
    Posted at 18:45h, 26 June

    Hi Joel,

    I’m a newcomer to your site and material in general. I love your focus on prophecy and missionary work. Thank you for all you are doing.

    I have a couple of questions about Reggie’s (and your?) position on the the body of Christ VS the Jewish nation. I’m not an expert (by any measure) so please understand I’m asking in the interest of clarity vs disagreement. I also have a question on the filling of the Spirit.

    On the body of Christ: Why do your and Reggies discussions about the Millennium always center primarily on passages about the Jews and Israel, leaving out references to the passages on royal family of God? Was the royal family of God taught in the OT? If the Jews and saved Gentiles share the exact same inheritance why wasn’t it? I don’t understand why it would only be introduced into the scriptures in the NT if it applied to the Jew and to the Christians, and if as Reggie says, there is no difference between Jews and Christians in the millennium. This also leads me to ask if the Jews are also considered to be “the bride’? If Jews and saved Gentiles are all the same why are they spoken about so differently? I’m not saying one is better than the other, I’m just wondering about saying that they are the same and lumping them all together. Maybe I misunderstood what was being said. I heard Reggie saying we Christians would be governing, did he mean the Jews and we Gentiles will be governing? I know the Jews will be preaching and teaching about God. Will the saved gentiles (Christians) be doing the same? I’m confused.

    Along the same lines Reggie seemed to be saying that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is the same in the OT and the NT. If that is true why are there so many passages in the NT referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit, and why the Day of Pentecost if the Holy Spirit always indwelled people? I have difficulty with the concept of the Holy Spirit always having indwelled people but this only being revealed in the NT. I’m not saying that great OT individuals were not filled with the Spirit, I’m asking why the NT makes a big announcement (one apostles didn’t know from their Jewish upbringing) about all saved believers being indwelled by the Holy Spirit if nothing is different between the Jews and what the NT calls “the church/body of Christ.” Did the OT teach that the body was a temple?

    I’m a pretty new student to this level of study. I pray every day for enlightenment and clarity. I love God, I love his word. I believe the endtimes are upon us and I study to show myself approved.

    Thanks again for all your good work. ~Rita

  • Kiwi75
    Posted at 05:12h, 27 June

    Hi Joel,

    I did not know if this was the right place to ask this so hope it doesn’t derail any more pertinent conversation. I live in Asia, and attend what could be described as a seeker friendly church. The pastor, like so many, believes that the church has taken the place of Israel and a lot of promises pertaining to Israel are now the churches to hold (Example the dry bones in Ezekiel, are now seen as a prophecy concerning the church). It is important to note he is not outwardly critical of Israel nor does he appear to be malicious in anyway towards the Jewish people.

    I like the pastor and know his heart is in the right spot its just that he has fallen into the false replacement theology a lot of folk have today. I want to help and I would like to approach him to talk him through what we (I hope I can say that; as I find myself in agreement with your teachings here) believe the bible says about Israel.

    In order to do this I am trying to answer the response I have received from several others and will probably encounter more – “Why is it important?” as I understand it will not alter peoples standing before God through Messiah and I am sure he will say (In nicer terms than this) there are other priorities in growing ones faith over this… So what are the key driving points? is there any simply put resources that I (not a gifted communicator or teacher by any means) can use to help us understand why this it is so important to get this right?

    Many thanks

  • Rita
    Posted at 16:16h, 27 June

    I’ve listened to the episode over and over. You can disregard my previous questions. I get most of it now. My biggest remaining confusion is how Reggie can think that the exact same church that is spoken of in the NT existed in the OT. I’ll have to pray for clarity on that one. ~Rita

  • Linda keyes
    Posted at 22:31h, 28 June

    Although still jubilant, I’ve calmed down a bit now, I’m happy like Paul above,but many British Christians are quite gutted. Its a time to keep our hearts from becoming fleshy,(especially as we will no doubt have to vote again!)

    The church i am presently attending are in EU beast camp. Apparently I have an open door to go and share with pastor, but it was said on Sunday that’the stone has struck the feet’ via the brexit vote.(So I think I may wait and pray for grace and wisdom.)

    Loved the analogy of the Phoenician women not being offended about the selection of Israel, first time hearing from that perspective, quite a revelation. Excellent episode Joel.

  • Sam
    Posted at 02:54h, 29 June

    Hi Kiwi, I won’t presume to speak for Joel, but the reason it is important is because the Name is at stake. See Ezekiel 36, Deuteronomy 32, Exodus 32…..God must fulfill His Word for the sake of His Name, to vindicate His name. If He doesn’t keep His Word, what kind of God is that? A false God….

    If He could cancel His Everlasting Covenant with Abraham, He could cancel His New Covenant with us…..He is proving who He is in the eyes of the world, so that we, the world, will know who He is, and will fear His Name.

    Also, it lends an urgency to the Gospel….the time is short. Finally, remember that we are not all eyes, or ears, or thumbs….we all do what God has called us to do for the good of the whole….which means others may not see things exactly as important as you might, Shalom!

  • Dave
    Posted at 19:12h, 29 June

    Hi Joel,
    I just saw this article and it really caught my attention.


    Could it be that Turkey integrates into the EU and this super-state goes to war with Israel? Given the animosity many Europeans have against Israel, it wouldn’t surprise me at all. Add to that the recent influx of Muslims into Europe and it seems to me that this would be a matter of great concern for Israel.

  • Kiwi75
    Posted at 14:30h, 30 June

    Thanks Sam.

  • Marcus Maddox
    Posted at 22:30h, 01 July

    Thanks for providing the link to Mystery of Israel. Seeing Reggie’s explanation of what and who the restrainer really is melted my heart.
    How I have longed to know another brother or sister understood this!
    It was like food to the hungry, water to the thirsty and a visit to the lonely.
    Thank you Joel.

  • Tamaira
    Posted at 19:26h, 07 July

    Joel, You always seem to discuss what is on our minds in our small group. My husband and I have been studying repeatedly the end times scenario. We came to the conclusion a year ago that pre trib didn’t hold its ground. We believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. We have been going back and forth between teaching the literal interpretation and post tribulation point of view while leaving our pre trib thoughts behind and trying to understand the messianic Jewish interpretation of events in the gospels . It’s like trying to learn to read again. You have to forget everything you thought you understood to be true and sometimes that’s just hard. Pre Trib just wasn’t adding up. The millennium has been a confusing topic for us. I keep trying to figure out who will be “the nations”;who will be left, and who will be blessed by the first Reserection. As I read it it sounds like only those who are still living and those that died during the great tribulation period, then after the millennium is the second reserection when Sheol is emptied and judgement begins, but others interpret that all who have died in Christ will be raised in that first reserection. And is the tribulation a worldwide event or is it pertaining to Israel. There seems to be a great deal of disaster and what nations or people’s will be left to be ruled with an iron scepter? There has to be people for the Jewish believers to witness to, so not everyone is gone. I agree that Yeshua’s return will involve battle. Too much points in that direction. And in my mind that would explain the times mentioned by Daniel, between 1260 days to 1290 and 1335 days. We will all have no doubt whatsoever of His return, but he will do battle after that. So I have rambled enough, thanks for any thought on questions. As always, great discussion.

  • Lisa
    Posted at 03:17h, 08 July

    This was an awesome episode! I believe these things too and am so glad to hear others talk about it so detailed. I find it amazing how much of the Bible talks about the millennium. I fantasize about it all the time. I do wonder though, how the temple and sacrificing plays into it that is in the last chapters of Ezekiel. And at the end of revelations, it says that Magog comes in again. I can’t wait to be a part of the millennium. I see God’s vindication and justice.

  • Alfred Thames
    Posted at 22:37h, 15 July

    Please enlighten me on the Scripture where Jesus sits on a literal throne on this present earth, in this present age, with half the population in glorified bodies and the other half in sinful flesh.

  • Joel
    Posted at 03:38h, 16 July


    Just because you disagree, there is no need to be rude.

    For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.
    (Isaiah 9:6–7)

    The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.”
    (Luke 1:30-33)

    And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.
    (Acts 1:9-11)

    “[Repent] That times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
    —Acts 3:20–21

    And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    (Matthew 19:28)

    “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
    (Matthew 25:31-34)

    He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
    (Hebrews 10:12-13)

    I hope these examples are helpful.

  • Erin
    Posted at 21:11h, 17 July

    I enjoyed these episodes with Reggie, and even moreso when you said he’s from Ben Israel. I love Art Katz and have chewed on the concept of Israel being all about God’s vindication of his right to be God even since I read the Mystery of Israel and the Church. One of my favorite books.

  • Rita
    Posted at 11:05h, 21 July

    Hi Joel, I know you are busy!! What exciting times we live in. I don’t even know what to pray for sometimes. I want to pray for mercy but I want to pray for judgement too so this can all be over soon. Come Lord Jesus.

    I’m reading your book “When a Jew Rules the World.” I’m at page 118 reading how Hippolytus helped set in place the hatred and persecution of the Jews in the early church. The thought occurs to me that what was set in place was a Christian judgement against the Jews, a total rejection of what God has indisputably set forth in the Word again, and again- that the Jews are his chosen, the apple of his eye, for ever and ever. How different is the Jews(and gentiles) rejecting Christ, from the Christians rejecting the election of the Jews? I understand one resulted in the Crucifixion of our Lord which was a unique injustice but both are examples of pride, and blindness of the worst type. Do you think that Christians are not hardened today, that they too are blinded? That Christians too might be in judgement by the Lord for their judgement against the Jews that has resulted in great suffering to God’s chosen? I LOVE that you are a voice calling our for your people to repent. I pray you will keep up your good work, that you will stay in the race, that blessings and mercy will be poured out on you and all you love. Thank you Joel.

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