23 Responses

1. Good argument against physicalism. “Absent from the body, present with the Lord” persuaded me.

2. Just like for Joel, the teaching of everlasting hell has had a positive effect on me. In my case, it helped me stay away from suicide.

   I was raised a christian but also had some severe issues. Even when in deep depressions my faith was almost gone, I still did not want to take the chance of maybe ending up in eternal suffering even worse than the suffering I already was in.

   I am sure that if I had been brought up with atheism or annihilationism, I would not have survived those depressions long – annihilation was what I deeply longed for in that state!

   Fortunately I later learnt more positive reasons to stay alive. For the record, I do not believe everyone committing suicide is lost. Yet I do not advise anyone to take the risk.

   I resonate with what Joel said about the destiny of evil people. Adolf Hitler expected eternal rest/sleep after his suicide. Now suppose God just resurrected him to tell Adolf he would soon be annihilated… Hitler would just smilingly thank God for that, and be pleased with that reward for all evil he did…

3. Amen glad you are addressing this major topic. we have a spirit with a soul and live in a body. the body will die but spirit will live forever. All spirits created in his image cannot cease to desist. We have free will to choose Jesus message and go either in Gods presence or without Gods presence. God is the creator of love, light, water, comfort, and just his presence what Heaven! Without Gods attributes there is darkness, no water, no love there is despair there is self absorption -pity, anger, regret and gnashing of teeth what Hell! The truth needs to be told right on for standing up.

4. Thank you taking this stand at this time. We truly need to proclaim the truth and help many more know the truth and be free. May The Lord fill you full of wisdom and all that is needed for such a ministry!.

5. Joel, thx for these programs on hell. The doctrine of hell had an impact on my coming to Jesus. I remember picking up a tract (in my mom’s home) that asked the question on the outside of tract, “Do you know what you miss by being a born again Christian?” I opened the tract to read in big, bold, red letters “HELL.”

   That tract had a significant impact on me. It literally scared me.

   Now, it was a while later that I was saved. But I believe that God had me under conviction and part of that conviction was the possibility of hell if I didn’t repent.

   Again, thx for these programs. I con’t to keep you and yours in my prayers.

6. A very loud AMEN Joel, keep telling the truth! Jesus would not simply make things up to portray truth, he speaks the truth, because thats who he is.

   I honestly wish i could agree with Chris, but it just does not equate with Gods word, conditionalists certainly do not have a monopoly on understanding Gods love, i think they have actually lost sight of it, and tried to make it fit our corrupted mortal view of a ‘just God’ and as you said, having eternal consequence.

   Leonard Ravenhill asked:
   When is the last time we could not go to bed, because we were crying out to God for the lost? May men like yourself keep saying it loud, and may the Holy spirit so convict our hearts to pray like we really believe. Amen

7. As us simple folk would say,per Mr ravenhill

   You can’t tell it like it is, if you don’t believe it like it was.

8. Hi Joel! You may have already done something like this,but I was curious as to whether you would be willing to make an Underground episode devoted to a timeline of the end times on a specific level? Maybe including dan.,zech,joel, And revelation? I think this may help in that it shows us what to look for next on God’s prophetic calendar. Though of course, some may be educated guesses as to what nation will do what, I still think it would be helpful! Thanks for all the work that you do for the kingdom of Christ! The Lord bless you

9. You mentioned something , Joel a couple of times during the discussions on Rethinking hell which has led me to share this.
   I knew a girl who told me the story of her conversion to Christ.As a very young teenager she had been out enjoying herself with friends one night and she came home to an empty house. This was more than unusual as it was a noisy house always full of family, neighbours and friends.The door was open and she ran round all the rooms frantically calling for her mum and dad, anyone.In her abject terror she threw herself to the floor and gave her life to Christ.She thought the Day off the Lord had come and everyone had been raptured. She was brought up Plymouth Brethern , a common denomination here in Northern Ireland, and where the Doctrine of Imminence was constantly taught. (By the way the family all came back, they had been down the street singing round a new piano the uncle had just bought).

   In later years and after much serious study she realised the doctrine did not ring true anymore., and she would have to give it up.. It was excruciatingly difficult for her because it had been her link to the Lord, the umbilical cord that drew her to her Saviour.Nevertheless she was able to cut the cord and lay the PreTrib doctrine at the feet of the Lord and leave it there.
   Had my friend not been so terrified of being left alone would she still have found her Saviout?
   I have no doubts at all on this as God is sovereign and we come to Him with nothing. It is all of mercy, all of grace.

10. Joel, I appreciate your willingness to tackle such a deep subject as our afterlife. After over 50 years
    of walking with the Lord and drinking deeply of His Word, I feel I have some biblical understanding on
    the sujject. For example even in this life, I see people who are cut off from the Spirit of God whose souls are in constant torment. That’s why the big three of the fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace. When our souls leave our bodies, a soul joined with God’s Spirit remains with His Spirit, and one that is not remains seperated. One of the things I find most theologians avoid discussing is I Peter 3&4 when Jesus went to
    preach to the spirits in prison during the days of Noah. Ex. 4:8 “For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
    Of course we know that those who died in the flood, died without the law to judge them. Thoughout the story of Noah the term, “destroyed all flesh” was emphasized over and over. Would you care to add your thoughts to this subject?

11. I agree. The souls of those who are dead, as well as the angelic beings are consistently portrayed as being “alive” in chains or held until the day of judgment. In Peter, the story is similar to a story found in 1 Enoch, where Enoch went and told the angelic beings they were doomed.

12. Thank you again, Joel, for another POWERFUL show. Genius & Biblically sound pulling of the “baloney cards” on Conditionalism, it is tragic how many watered-down versions of the Gospel are being propogated & leading the lost even further astray.

    I want to thank you also for your show with John P. Harrigan & recommending his book “The Gospel of Christ Crucified”, it is a PHENOMENAL BOOK! It would be a great blessing for everyone to read and perhaps an EXCELLENT gift to send to your previous Conditionalist guest! Between your last two shows (which were PHENOMENAL as well!) & Mr. Harrigan’s book (Chapter 3: Biblical Theology, in particular) the argument for Conditionalism is thoroughly & BIBLICALLY shattered. Nice work, brother!

    I just ordered your newest film, “The Global Jesus Revolution”…I can’t wait to see it! Thank you for all that you do & God bless!

    Sara L.

13. Hi Joel,
    Thank you for allowing a guest a couple of shows back to present a view different from your own. These topics often are not discussed among Christians, especially in a respectful and helpful way. I understand from the latter shows that you lean towards the traditional view. I spent a season studying hell in the Bible in depth and put together a Bible study based on what I learned (I lean towards the conditionalist/annihilation view). I don’t know if you have time or would be willing to read it (I realize I have no formal credentials…I’m just someone who has a passion for studying the word), but I’d love to send it your way. It might bring up some different points you haven’t considered. The heart of it is not to show traditionalists they are wrong in their view, but rather to show that conditionalism is a Biblically viable and teneable perspective. Thanks again!
    Many blessings,
    Summer

14. Summer,

    I can confidently say that the conditionalist view is not a biblical viable option. It is truly a departure from the faith one and for all delivered to the saints. I would strongly encourage you to reconsider.

    Be blessed,
    Joel

15. Thank you for this study on Hell(not calling you the “hell guy”). This topic has come up many time in our group bible study with a few, well one person, feeling God is cruel to send people to hell for eternity. I fear she would rather embrace conditionalism than scripture . I guess that term is traditionalism,but I prefer the term scripture. I don’t know how to argue with her dislike or discomfort. She reads the verses and thinks God is too harsh. I don’t know what to do with that. I’m afraid departure from literal interpretation is an open door for other ideas and there will be a great falling away.
    My main reason for writing was to ask for details on how to support the two men that are in the Balkins-the ones from a couple episodes ago. When it asks if you want your donation to go to someone specific you have to know the name-there is no drop down list. I put his first name and “in the Balkins” , but I don’t know if that was enough to get to them. What should I put next time?

16. Orthodoxy (right belief) is most often as simple as having a truly contrite and believing heart.

    If you make a donation through the designated site, it will go to the refugees Bible program. This is really their only main project right now, so no worries about it going elsewhere.

    Bless you for your faithfulness.

17. Thanks for this Joel. I grew up in a Christian home and in a church that did not shy away from teaching about hell – not a Fire and Brimstone type of church, but one that did not avoid the subject and that was faithful to the traditional view. I did not truly turn my life over to Christ and become baptized until I was well into my 20s. The only thing that kept me somewhat moored during my college years was the knowledge that God could plant me in hell eternally. Some come to a relationship with Christ because he provides forgiveness, love, fulfillment etc. I was arrogant enough to think that I had my life together and did not need that relationship. A healthy “fear of the Lord” is what ultimately brought me back to Him.

    Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

18. Thought you might like this Joel….fitting for this topic

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdYnqCmNlMo&list=PLXMXNIWAc3kd7TyCUUsGY3059nAwpBfCt&nohtml5=False

19. Mr. Richardson, My personal conversion was probably similar to yours. The change was drastic and sudden enough for the whole world around me to notice(and still talk about to this day) Hell had an important role in my conversion, but just maybe it was my own personal caricature of hell. Folks like Ray Comfort try to scare you with hell, but Ray never spells out details of hell. He leave that to each person’s imagination. It just so happened that the hell I imagined was very much similar to yours. At first I thought denying that particular version of hell was denying the Gospel, but not any more. Denying ECT is not denying judgment. I still believe in a bifurcation of mankind. Some to life, some to death. Wheats/Chaffs. That bifurcation was Jesus’ message. No third way of temporary punishment with promise of release.

    Mr. Richardson, you tie the account of Ex. 3 burning bush (which was not consumed) with Mark 9’s Gehenna. You share company with Arthur Pink on this. In Eternal Punishment, Pink writes that in the same manner that the bush was not consumed and the three Hebrews of Dan.3 were not consumed, the wicked in Gehenna will not be consumed. Pink says it is because everybody will be salted with fire and because salt preserves, everybody will be preserved for hell-fire.

    Sir, Could you be mistaken? Consume is exactly what our Lord taught would happen to the wicked. And not in ‘cryptic terms’ but in easily understandable agricultural analogies. Wheat in barns/ chaff consumed.

    The Bush was not ‘akal (consumed) Isaiah 33:11 “You conceive chaff; you give birth to stubble; your breath is a fire that will ‘akal(consume) you. And the peoples will be as if burned to lime like thorns cut down, that are burned in the fire.” Verse 14 “Who among us can dwell with the ‘akal(consuming) fire? Who among us can dwell with everlasting burnings?

    The answer to verse 14 may surprise some folks, its found in the very next line “He who walks righteous and speaks uprightly…he will dwell on the heights” The saved, not the lost will survive judgment.

20. LP,

    I am quite confident that I am wrong about a myriad of things. Who isn’t? Is it possible that after some vast amount of time, the wicked cease to exist in hell? Terminal punishment as it were? Of course this is possible. And this may even be the best way to reconcile all of the various and seemingly diverse pictures within Scripture on this issue. The notion that the wicked simply die, almost immediately however, simply cannot be reconciled with Scripture. Not if one is honest. Personally, I would rather stick with the language of Scripture than impose what I desire. Torment, suffering, and often eternal or vast are communicated. Luke 16 and Rev 14:11 in particular are not so easily brushed aside. One must devote literal chapters in efforts to do so. Occam’s Razor is something to be considered. So not only is the language of torment, but specifically at times, the language of ETC is most certainly present within the pages of Scripture. Humility demands that I use biblical language, while trusting the Lord. I fear for those who would preach it any other way.

21. Sir, it’s obvious that I consider myself an annihilationist and it may be in violation of good behavior to post my disagreement on your site, but I tried to be as charitable as possible. Why can’t that respect be reciprocated?

    I can reconcile Scripture with the wicked dying just fine. What are the wages of sin? Don’t call me dishonest.You say you would rather stick with Scripture as opposed to the anti-biblical feelgood compromises I’m espousing.

    It’s odd that you claim Luke 16 as a proof. The parable ends with; “they have Moses and the Prophets, let them listen to them.” Funny thing is, Moses and the Prophets(which means the OT) have nothing remotely like ECT hell in them.

    Occam’s Razor certainly is something to be considered. We need to hack away all the meanings placed on words like death, destroy, perish, which on any given Sunday mean excruciating existence, indestructible and imperishable. God’s warning of “you shall surely die” doesn’t need Occam,’s Razor. Neither does Eze 18 ‘the soul who sins will die’

    There’s nothing humble about telling a brother he’s bound for the ECT he denies because he doesn’t preach judgement in the same manner as you. That would be sending Paul to the hell he never preached about. And also Luke, who recorded the greatest missionary journey of all time in Acts never wrote of ECT in hell. I don’t suppose my humility is coming through today, but I am in good company with what I preach.

22. LP Dion,

    Nothing about my response was disrespectful in the least bit. In no way did I infer that you are going to hell because you don’t preach it. You’ve obviously assumed something I did not say or even think. The tone of your response here however is entirely uncalled for. I simply expressed my views and personal convictions.

    The wages of sin are indeed death. The question is simply what death means. Conditionalists must impose the oversimplified assumption that death = ceasing to exist. The Scriptures however do not allow for this. As I said, Luke 16 and Revelation 14, 20 give us an awfully good idea of what death for the wicked entails. Elsewhere, Gabriel through Daniel tells us it involves everlasting shame. One cannot experience shame if they cease to exist.

23. Just fyi, I have now listened to your three videos on hell and find some convincing points. I need to research both sides more. I am not convinced either way. Now I am pretty unsure. Not a fun place to be. But in Matthew 10:28 Jesus said “don’t be afraid of those who KILL the body but cannot KILL the soul. Rather, be afraid of Him who can DESTROY both soul and body in Hell (Gehenna)” If Jesus was truly not combatting the views of the intertestamental period I imagine instead He would have said “don’t be afraid of those who KILL the body but cannot KILL the soul. Rather, be afraid of Him who can TORTURE both soul and body in Hell FOREVER.” What if Matthew 10:28 was Jesus’ answer to the typical Pharisaical opinions of His day? After all He told the people to follow their teachings specifically from the book of Moses but He did not tell them to follow the add ons such as extreme rules regarding the Sabbath which the Pharisees also taught in His time on earth.

    Also, in this life we suffer the sentence of the curse of death and yet, we suffer years before we die. There could be weeping and gnashing of teeth in the fire of Gehenna for quite some time before the second death. I can’t imagine it to be easy. What horror to go through!

    I hear you that the concept of hell helped bring you to the faith in Jesus. Praise God! Hooray! If hell were not forever though God could still have used it. He used the heat of the day to bring you into the building. He used the miracle. Jesus’ disciples were saved long before they knew all of who He was. They had misconceptions about His role. We don’t have to have it all correct to get saved. And if the Holy Spirit was telling you avoiding Jesus meant the lake of fire, that could still be 100 percent accurate even if the lake of fire is punishment and judgement via torment and then death because it sounded like you said He named it for you, not defined it.

    I had an experience where God gave me the gift of speaking in tongues (and a very big language that amazes me, not just like a few repeated words: it is real.) But it was via watching an online healing ministry (relatively unknown) who I years later realize was probably a phony. Yet in my room watching a rerun service, when he said that at that time we could speak in tongues, God gave me the gift. I have wrestled and struggled with why did God give me the gift this way? After years of being a Christian. Finally to conclude God knew my heart and “if you ask for a fish He will not give you a snake” as my comfort. So from my experience God can use even pastors who preach from false motives as it says in Phillippians to bring us to His truth also.

    Maybe you are correct about hell being eternal torment. But if not maybe my story will help.

    I still need to research more before I can know. I guess when I witness for now I will just say there are two bad options that could happen if refusing Christ and either one will be misery so turn to Him to escape.

    Also, you answered some of the points the books I previously mentioned brought up. Still I would love your opinion on all of them as they gave many more biblical verses supporting annihilism it seemed.

    Thank you and may God keep you safe.