34 Responses

1. Thank you, Joel. That was an excellent episode.

2. Bonjour Joel,

   Hope you are doing well.

   Thanks again for your great serie “The Underground”, it is both a pleasure and a blessing to study with you.

   This week episode should be Episode 16, instead of 15!!

   😉

   Please remember to have a word with Josef F regarding the publishing of MidEast Beast in French!

   Have a nice and blessed trip in Israel,

   Love and blessings,

   François-Xavier

3. Joel, you mentioned a commentary – the only one I believe – that rightly interpreted the visions of Daniel 8 as future-pointing, concerning “the time of the end.” But, I didn’t hear you mention the name of that commentary. Can you please relay it here? Thanks! It was a very helpful Underground! Blessings!

4. Joel,
   Amazing! Pleasure following the underground. Have a great week!
   Thank you
   Blessing

   Michael Rodriguez

5. Hi Dave,

   On my way to Israel. Let me get back with the exact name in a couple weeks.

6. I appreciate Joel’s honesty and humility. He writes a best-selling book, The Islamic Antichrist, and follows that with the more scriptural
   book, Mideast Beast. The Islamic Antichrist inspired Mark Davidson to do research resulting in Davidson’s interesting book Daniel Revisited, which praised Joel’s contributions, but which is at odds with the portions of Mideast Beast dealing with Daniel 7 and 8. In this latest presentation Joel seems to be supporting Davidson’s interpretation, although keeping open the possibility that Davidson may have misinterpreted the two horns on the Ram. We should see how this plays out soon, although “plays out” is a poor choice of words for the chaos and misery that will result from an Iranian-led conquering of the Mideast.

7. Joel,
   I found this Article today. I thought you would find it interesting

   Acra fortification, built by Hanukkah villain Antiochhus IV Ephiphanes, maintained Seleucid Greek control over Temple until it’s conquest by Hasmoneans in 141 BCE.”

   http://www.timesofisrael.com/maccabean-era-fortress-unearthed-in-jerusalem-after-century-long-search/?utm_source=The+Times+of+Israel+Daily+Edition&utm_campaign=cbcafc7876-2015_11_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_adb46cec92-cbcafc7876-54733949

   Thank you,
   Penny

8. Joel, if you would permit me…

   If your interpretation of Daniel 8 being consistently future is correct, then I’m not sure that the hour really is “later than we think.” If what you are saying is true, then not only do we still need to witness Turkey re-conquer the mid-east after this Iranian invasion, but the biblical text implies a long ways to go even after that. The leader of Turkey still has to die and then divvy up the kingdom into fourths, and then the anti-Christ still doesn’t come until “the latter part of their reign.” You didn’t discuss that phrase, “the latter part of their reign,” (Dan 8:23) but it implies that potentially many generations will pass between the supposed Turkish invasion of the middle east, and the actual rise of the anti-Christ. There is definitely some kind of time gap there, which I see as clear evidence that Daniel 8 can’t be a 100% end time prophecy.
   Also, just because the language of the feast in Ezekiel 39 is very similar to the language used in Revelation 19, that doesn’t mean that they absolutely have to be the same feast. All throughout scripture and history, we have seen God establish patterns. And I know you agree that there are dual fulfillments of some prophecies. And many passages in the Bible use similar language to describe different events. It is my opinion, that you have not offered an argument satisfactorily enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these two feasts must be one and the same.
   Also, the phrase “and then they will know that I am the Lord,” is used like hundreds of times in the Old Testament. Obviously all of those passages are not eschatological in nature. I believe that phrase essentially means that God is using that event (or some other event) to reveal Himself to Israel and/or the nations. I don’t believe that the existence of that phrase in Ezekiel 39 is proof that Jesus has returned at that point.
   I have a question for you. You mentioned that America is going to roll over in the mid-east and allow Iran to conquer it. You may be right about that. Obama does seem, however, to be trying to provoke Russia & China into a conflict with the US right now. Do you foresee the proxy war in Syria escalating into a world war?

9. Joel – Please look at Amos 7:1 in the Septuagint and see how Amos uses GOG.. It appears as though it is a code name for Satan as he leads a host of demons (Locusts – as in Revelation his name is Apollyon and Abaddon). The king of Babylon reference in Isaiah 14:4 would be a similar treatment as is King of Tyrus in Ezek 28:12. Truly it is aka Lucifer who is behind all the evil human forces mobilized on the earth, right? What do you think?

10. WB,

    A few comments. First, “then they shall now that I am the Lord” is not used “like a hundred times.” I’m not sure where this comment comes from, but it is not accurate. It is now upon you to provide support for your false claim. Which you will not be able to do.

    Ezekiel uses this phrase frequently. But what is being said in Ez. 38-39 is directly related to the destruction of Gog and his hordes. Second, in this episode, I essentially skim a rock over the surface of the passage in Ezekiel 38-39. While one could write some of the statements off as not absolutely proving that Jesus has returned, not only are there a few phrases which this cannot be done with (eg., I will pour out my spirit on them), but the cumulative statements together establish that this is the final conclusion of the story beyond any question. As the Lord says, “this is the day I have spoken of.” Do not let my brief comments here be confused with any comprehensive argument. I discuss this in much greater detail in Mideast Beast, establishing IMO beyond any doubt that this is the conclusion. I would also of course encourage you to carefully read the whole text. Blessings

11. Hi Joel,

    Thank you for sharing your wisdom and knowledge the Lord has blessed you with in biblical prophesy! It is very clear what is occurring in the Middle East, and your books, videos, etc, have shed a tremendous light on the events that are occurring and will occur. Thank you, be safe, and God Bless!

12. WB it is later than we think. Iran could start invading the middle east within the next year or so and take lets say 6 months to take whatever amount of land there meant to take. Then almost immediately afterwards Turkey retaliates and sends out hundreds of fighter jets and helicopters and wipes out Iran in a short time maybe weeks or a few months and takes back the land Iran took and form a new empire then as soon as this happens the leader magnifies himself and waxes great. Then either the leader dies or Nato, United States or someone forces the kingdom to split into 4. Then lets say 4 or 5 yrs later the Antichrist rises. There is no implication of generations here and the Bible seems to imply that almost immediately after he rises he confirms the covenant with Israel. No date setting or anything here just showing how fast it could happen. Think about this if the last generation that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 that won’t pass away till all is fullfilled began when Israel (Fig Tree) became a nation again in 1948, then we are nearly 70 years into the last generation so if that interpretation is correct we don’t have generations to go.

13. Ed – great point about Amos 7:1!
    οὕτως ἔδειξέν μοι κύριος καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐπιγονὴ ἀκρίδων ἐρχομένη ἑωθινή καὶ ἰδοὺ βροῦχος εἷς Γωγ ὁ βασιλεύς.

    “Thus the Lord showed me, and behold, a swarm of locusts coming early, and behold, one locust, Gog, the king.”

14. Thanks so much Joel for your excellent teachings! I have read many of your books and look forward to the Underground episodes each week. For someone who doesn’t have time to do all the thorough research myself, I am blessed to absorb your guidance and understanding. I really appreciate the careful and thoughtful approach you take with everything checked against scripture. It is a breath of fresh air in an otherwise very crowded marketplace of end times information. Keep it up and may our Lord continue to provide insight to you and your readers as we attempt to understand our crazy world!

15. Joel, in terms of your new NIV with leather binding, you can’t judge a book by its cover, but you can judge it by its highlights and notes in the margin. I love seeing a brother using a “marked up” Bible like yours. Great teaching as always.

    Ed, Christopher: Amos 7:1 is a very interesting passage in the Greek with its mention of Gog. Joel 2:1-11 may be the passage in view in Amos, not the 5th Trumpet of Revelation. My interpretation of Joel 2 is the invasion of Israel at the midpoint so this could support a Gog = Antichrist view. However, since the MT (Hebrew) doesn’t say “Gog”, I find it interesting but IMHO not definitive.

    Jason, I am right with you and Joel in terms of timing. The Iranian invasion, the Turkish counter-invasion, the break up the Neo-Ottoman Empire into four and the rise of Antichrist could happen in a Shabua (7 years). It might not, but it could easily.

    WB, I do see your thinking on Dan. 8:23, however the Greek Septuagint version simply reads “at the end of their kingdom” and doesn’t carry the length of time implied by the English Translation of the MT. BTW, the Hebrew word translated “reign” (MALKUTH)in the MT of 8:23 also means “kingdom” not really reign.

16. Joel thanks so much. This is great info to compare to the times. Almost every version says the male goat is Greece. Can you please explain how this can be a country other than Greece?

17. Sharon,

    Because the nation of Greece today is very different than what was called Javan at the time. The word used is Javan, translated as Greece. At the time of Daniel, Javan spanned the Aegean Sea. It included what is today Western Turkey.

18. Joel,

    I noticed, that one of the ram’s horns “was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last.” (Daniel 8:3). The verse also states that both horns were high, meaning they both were quite powerful. I agree with you about assumption that one of them is Iran, and the other might be some Kurdish government. Looking at the map, I don’t see any other options. But the higher one coming last puzzles me a lot. If Iran is to lead the “butting” and thus being the horn that came up last, does it make sense? Or, as another option, can Kurds become so powerful that they outpace Iran? This option does not look feasible so far. What do you think?

19. In the first edition of the book Daniel Revisited by Mark Davidson, Iran’s supreme leader was the first horn and Iran’s president was the second horn. In the second edition of the book the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps is the second horn that has become longer. “The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia” (Daniel 8:20). This suggests that the horn of Media would be surpassed by the horn of Persia. However, Davidson argues that Iranians are descended from the Medes and Persians, so that the phrase “the kings of Media and Persia” means the leaders of Iran, which are its supreme leader and the IRGC.

20. Following on Azim’s question, could the ram’s two horns represent Iran’s Shia clerical rulers and the Pasdaran, i.e., the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (“IRGC”)? The IRGC wields tremendous political power in Iran. It controls the paramilitary Basij militia, and is responsible for national security, for internal and border security, and law enforcement as well. Many analysts believe its political power has actually surpassed that of the clerics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_the_Guardians_of_the_Islamic_Revolution

21. Jeanne,

    The text says the Medes and the Persians. So I would say no. I think the best interpretation is the Persians and the Kurds.

22. Good point, Joel.

23. Nice one.

    God bless

24. Joel – I appreciate your ministry and your heart. Your “Mideast Beast” awakened a whole new perspective for me, and clearly for many others. And I feel that “When a Jew Rules the World” should be required reading for every pastor. Good job!

    However, when I read Mideast Beast then, and as I listen to this video now, I remain troubled at the assertion that the War of Gog and Magog (WGM) and the Battle of Armageddon (BOA) are one and the same. Perhaps they are, but if the texts you quote from are the basis for your argument, then other points need to be considered as well from those same texts and surrounding ones.

    To suggest that the theme of “….then they will know I am the Lord” from Ez. 38:23 and Ez. 39:7 (regarding both Israel and the nations of the world) is somehow a key turning point within which unbelief gives way to the opposite extreme of total belief, is to call into question those prior similar passages (i.e. Ez. 36:33; 36:36; 36:38; 37:6; 37:13, etc) in which the same language is also used. But clearly, those prior passages describe the renewal of the land itself, the rebirth of Israel, and so on, and none of those events – magnificent as they have been – have resulted in the total change of heart of the Jews and all the nations such as you tout the language of Ez. 38:23 and Ez. 39:7 to describe.

    Secondly, a problem emerges if one believes that Gog and the Beast of Rev. 19 are one and the same. This is chiefly because Gog dies on the battlefield of WGM (see Ez. 39:4-5) and is eaten by the birds and such, but the Beast is captured alive (together with the False Prophet) and thrown ALIVE into the lake of burning fire (see Rev. 19:20). These are clearly two different fates. Perhaps because these are two different individuals.

    Personally, I don’t have a problem with the similar language of the ‘birds and beasts having a feast’ in the two accounts of the WGM and the BOA. Sure, the passages are very similar, I agree, but who’s to say God cannot do a very similar thing twice?

    One last thing: I know God could arrange things so that the Jewish nation is physically and arduously cleaning up the aftermath of a great conflict in their land for seven years after Jesus returns and sets up His kingdom, but in light of this timeframe being a period of great supernatural physical renewal of the earth, this argument begs the question, “Why?” I recognize this is no stellar point to make all by itself, but if we are to imagine that the Jewish people are toiling in this manner for seven years into the Millenial Kingdom’s conditions, it just seems a stretch to me.

    God Bless – keep up the faithful service.
    STEVE

25. Steve,

    First, Mideast Beast contains a series of arguments, which together make a water-tight case. Equating Gog with the AC does not hinge on any one particular issue. However, even this one issue is sufficient. Because second, the passages you listed do not speak of the present regathering to the land, but the ultimate, future, and final regathering to the land, after the return of Jesus. This is certainly true of the latter portions of Ezekiel 36 and clearly with regard to 37 (which speaks of the resurrection of the dead and restoration of all Israel, and not merely the present day regathering to the land.) Third, I deal with the issue of the death of Gog and the AC in Mideast Beast as well as in the following article:

    https://joelstrumpet.com/?p=6328

    There are no contradictions. As far as the cleaning up of the land, the answer is simple. Life goes on after Jesus returns. Its not simply a “supernatural” renewal. The Scriptures do not teach such a concept. They teach the physical rebuilding and renovation of the earth and the blessing of God on this process. We deal with this issue in When a Jew Rules the World as well.

    I hope this helps. Forgive my brevity.

    Many Blessings!
    Joel

26. Steve in Ezekiel 38:17 God says about Gog Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? The old testament prophets spoke of a person called the Assyrian who is the Antichrist. So Gog and the Antichrist are the same person. And we know that the Antichrist is defeated by Christ at his return. Also if Gog dies on the battlefield his body would be destroyed, but his soul would be thrown into the lake of fire.

27. I also think that the 7 years clean-up is at the onset of the Millennium. And I am even inclined to the wedding feast of the Lamb being also at the onset. Why? Because it is hard for me to think that there is a wedding feast going on with Jesus at the same time that He is pouring out His wrath on His enemies.

    Also, everyone — whether it be saved Israel or the sheep nations — who “successfully” comes through the great tribulation and also survives God’s wrath would be very happy and thankful to God for His mercy, and glad to clean up the mess they have caused. These could also be the friends of the Bridegroom, who, not being the Bride — which is the Body of Christ — would be rejoicing at the wedding for being the guests, reveling in the life that they have been offered by the King and His Queen!

    This is my gut feeling now; we’ll see how things develop. 🙂 Does this seem biblically sound?

28. Hey I first want to say I am a Tea Party Republican/Conservative before I get any flames for my comment. I love your awesome insight Joel. I first saw you on TV last year and you have really helped me see prophecy in a different light from my old view of end time events.

    Ok here is just an observation… Today is 3 days since the attacks in France. On the news we see conservatives (Im one of them) speaking of no fly zones in Turkey and defeating ISIL through NATO intervention. If the antichrist could possibly be coming from this area and that Turkey is part of NATO could this support for intervention through NATO actually be a player in the coming conflicts and strengthen Turkeys future attack or counter attack of Iran (Persia)? As an American I dont see any right side that the US can take – either side politically would be suicide but not trying would be just as bad. We have to politically do what we can to fight for freedom and the defense of our country but Spiritually we need to have compassion for both sides for the Gospel. So I agree with Joel we cant be totally nationalistic in our approach to the mideast. But is looks like to me as the leader of the free world (regardless of our current presidents view) and that Turkey is conveniently part of NATO that we might unintentionally further the position of Turkey to do exactly what Joel has proposed… Just an observation. 🙂

29. Hi all

    If its ok to say, i love Howards comment!

    I also believe that the wedding feast of the Lamb is Post Day of the Lord, but maybe for a different reason.

    Rev 19 says that the Lambs wife, the New Jerusalem, Has made Herself ready, and as in the parables in the gospels, we are the ones invited to the edding.
    I’ve never understood how the church came to be called the bride.

    It would be good if at some point the marriage feast could be a topic of one of your programmes Joel, it’s not something that is spoken of much, but clearly a piece of the picture.

    Smiles to all

30. Howard,

    It was fantastic to meet you face to face in Jerusalem. Thanks for driving up and saying hello. I appreciate your wisdom and input.

    Bless you,
    Joel

31. Thanks for making time for me, Joel.

    And as for the wedding feast at the onset of the Millennial reign, and after the Gog war against the LORD’s people at rest, the coming again of Jesus will give that rest to His people who finally acknowledge their sin against Him, and it requires real peace for people of other nations in the Middle East to help mark the dead people from the war against Israel for burial. This takes seven months, and there are the seven years of burning weapons. Jesus will make war to cease. This is environmental clean-up, as the Lord regenerates the Earth to become like His garden of Eden! 🙂

32. Joel,
    So blessed by The Underground Episodes! Still looking for your recommendation of the commentary on Daniel that you referenced…

33. William Coit Stevens. Not saying its the best commentary there is, but the rare one that takes a more consistent view of Daniel 8. My favorite classic is still G.H. Lang. In more modern times, the Expositors and Stephen Miller.

34. Joel,
    With all due respect, I am a little confused as to what you are saying here so help me please.
    I am a Pastor but only for the last 9 years and have a little different understanding iIthink than what you’re teaching here but i could be wrong.. I hope you will help me see clearly.

    Are you saying that your understanding is this battle actually occurs when Jesus returns to earth at His 2nd coming at the end of the 7 Tribulation? I agree that is when Jesus returns but as for the timing on this battle help me out here.

    You believe that Israel will not be restored and returned to their land until after Jesus returns during the millennial kingdom?
    That would mean that Israel returns to their land during the millennial and then they collect the weapons of their dead enemies during the millennial to use as firewood to get REVENGE on their enemies during the millennial kingdom as stated in vs 10?

    10 “When that day comes, the people in the towns of Israel will collect the weapons of their dead enemies. They will use these shields, bows and arrows, spears, and clubs as firewood, and there will be enough to last for seven years. 10 They will burn these weapons instead of gathering sticks or chopping down trees. That’s how the Israelite’s will take revenge on those who robbed and abused them. I, the Lord, have spoken..”

    Then you are saying that God will bury the “ANTICHRIST in Israel in the Travelers Valley by the dead sea during the millennial as stated in vs 11?

    11 After Gog has been destroyed, I will bury him and his army in Israel, in Travelers’[a] Valley, east of the Dead Sea. That graveyard will be so large that it will block the way of anyone who tries to walk through the valley,[b] which will then be known as “The Valley of Gog’s Army.”[c]

    And then after God buries the Antichrist, Israel will spend 7 months burying other enemy bodies during the millennial?

    12 The Israelite’s will spend seven months burying dead bodies and cleaning up their land.

    and it will be after all of that before God’s Glory is seen as stated in vs. 13

    13 Everyone will help with the burial, and they will be honored for this on the day the brightness of my glory is seen.

    Then vs 14 says after those 7 months they will appoint men to look for more dead bodies to clean the land?

    14 After those seven months, the people will appoint a group of men to look for any dead bodies left unburied. This must be done for seven months to make sure that the land is no longer unclean. 15 Whenever they find a human bone, they will set up a marker next to it. Then the gravediggers will bury it in “The Valley of Gog’s Army” 16 near the town of “Gog’s Army.”

    And only after all of that, a year into the millennial, THEN the land will be PURE again as the scripture says?.

    Then after all of that, God is going to hold “feast in Israels mountains” and offer sacrifices ” “Sacrifices” During the millennial” as stated in vs 17

    17 Ezekiel, son of man, I am going to hold a feast on Israel’s mountains and offer sacrifices there.

    :

    And only after all of that, a year into the millennial, THEN Israel will live safe in their land, vs 26?

    . 26 They will live safely in their own land,

    I just don’t think that I am understanding what you are teaching here or I am missing something.
    I agree with just about all of your teachings, but this doesn’t match my understanding of the second return of Christ and the millennial Kingdom as Jesus reigns on earth. Help me understand this please..