46 Comments
  • alan webb
    Posted at 22:07h, 14 September

    Great program, Joel…as always, I appreciate your teaching as it has increased my bible knowledge immensely…. I will make an effort to contribute to FAI for the movie production, the world needs to see it soon! Keep it up, good luck.
    Tomball, TX

  • Jeanne T.
    Posted at 14:08h, 15 September

    Another excellent video. Thank you for highlighting the ministries you mentioned and bringing them to our awareness.

    “21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.” Matthew 24

    Joel, do you think that the fact that the great tribulation will be “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will” will be due to the very scope of its reach, in addition to the terrible persecution and suffering? IMO, what the Christians are suffering in the Middle East right now could not possibly get any worse for THEM. Right now, they are suffering great tribulation. It’s difficult for us in the West to imagine the utter evil of ISIS, which I believe is a preview of what’s coming under the AC, except that it will be on a much larger scale. Since so many (Western) believers believe we will escape trouble, I think they tend to be somewhat flippant about this.

  • Joel
    Posted at 14:39h, 15 September

    The Great Tribulation is great primarily because if its massive scope. It is a misnomer for pre-tribbers to say that the message of the rapture is the comfort that we as believers will not have to go through great suffering per se as you said. Therein no guarantee that we as individuals will not suffer greatly. Many today already are suffering as much as a human might suffer. The great tribulation does not necessarily intone the worst suffering individuals might go through, rather it will be of such a massive global scale. But many believers who have lost their families, been tortured etc., already have suffered worse than someone might suffer during the Great Tribulation.

  • maria
    Posted at 14:40h, 15 September

    Really good program, Joel. A clear, scripture grounded and very encouraging message!
    It makes me very sad too, to see so many christians saying the wildest things when it comes to the end times. But the worst is all the arguing and fighting about who`s wrong and who`s right in their interpretations of end time prophesies.
    Bassed on what you say in your program, I just wanted to add one thing – the antichrist can not stop the sacrifises in the temple half way the 7 year covenant, if there is no temple. So the third temple also has to be build first.
    I also have a question, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, the starting point of what this passage describes, is it also half way the 7 year covenant? And if yes, how do we know it talks about the breaking point of the 7 year covenant.

    Many blessings from the Netherlands!

  • Joel
    Posted at 14:42h, 15 September

    Hi maria,

    I tackle this issue in the next show. : )

  • maria
    Posted at 15:02h, 15 September

    Just a small not on the tribulation subject. I`s not only the christians in Syria who suffer persecution and risc their lives. I have a friend who ministers in India, christians there also risc loosing everything, maybe even their lives. I believe is that way in China and North Korea and many other countries in the world. I watched tv program today about the christians in Cuba, that the churches there are growing so much and so fast they can`t facilitate their members. And as one of the main reasons for this grouw they gave is oppression from the authorities. So only because christians in the Western World and especially America have not been persecuted, does not mean that this has not been the reality of christians all over the world for the last 2k years.

  • Jeanne T.
    Posted at 15:15h, 15 September

    Maria, you are so right. Persecution has been the pattern throughout history. The West will not escape.

  • linda keyes
    Posted at 16:37h, 15 September

    Ah, you so hit my desire there Joel, that the two camps should meet. If you like, that is my dearest hearts desire, i have greaved over it this very week.
    I get shunned by the none charismatics, (surely i cant know anything about Gods word ). But amongst those i fellowship with, well, its all about food, loudspeakers and gimmicks to get bums on seats, Im not that old yet, but gone are the days when we went to church to learn anything, you will get fed to death, made deaf and sent home wondering where the full gospel went.

    If only Pastors knew how their sheep go home after service, and cry out to God in frustration. We don’t want raz, we want to hear the full council of God, end times included.

    Thankfully, we have places like this to come and be encouraged in the truth, so thank you for your dedication to His word Joel, we all appreciate it.

  • Erik in Texas
    Posted at 19:12h, 15 September

    Dear Joel,

    I make it a point to listen to every Underground every week, it is very fulfilling. I find myself questioning a previous episode of yours about praying for this nation. At what point will Christians find themselves behind enemy lines here in America? Also, what band performs the song you use in your intro? very catchy.

  • Joel
    Posted at 19:16h, 15 September

    Hi Erik,

    The early apostolic Church lived under Rome under one of the most persecuting and evil emperors, and yet Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit commanded the believers to pray for the king and governing authorities.

    Not sure about the song. Something found online by my editor.

    Blessings!

  • David Willliams
    Posted at 23:13h, 15 September

    Thanks again Joel for another brilliant and balanced presentation straight from the word of God.
    God is using you in a profound way, may you always remain humble and balanced in your walk with God.
    It is not a coincidence that God is bringing you into this place of Ministry.
    It is so vital today that we base our Doctrine on the very words of Jesus and the Prophets, it is such a fine line to cross to believe man and take mans side because others do rather than stand alone on the Words of Christ and His Prophets
    Again thank you and Shalom
    Our ministry is to bring others to Christ and be a light that shines in the darkness, how selfish to think that because we are now saved ourselves that we should escape this evil world and leave no Light to Shine.
    The Greatest hour of Ministry of the Church Jew and Gentile will be in the Time of Tribulation to reveal who God and who Christ is and to walk in the Power of the Holy Spirit.
    Death where is your sting.

  • Nelson Walters
    Posted at 00:58h, 16 September

    Great exegesis Joel, especially in regard to why it is not Jesus who strengthens the Covenant with the Many, but rather the AC. I think what throws commentators off is the word “Covenant” which most immediately connect with the Mosaic Covenant or the New Covenant in Jesus’s blood. I agree with you, though, that Daniel is pointing back to Isaiah 28: 14-15 and the Covenant with Death and Sheol.

    This is confirmed by John in Revelation when he points out that at breaking of the Fourth Seal, this same Death and Sheol accompany the Green Horse who is given authority over a quarter of the earth to kill. This is, of course, the Midpoint of the 70th Week and the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Chris Mantei pointed out to me that this use of the identical terms “Death and Sheol” as a reference is John’s way of pointing us back to Isa. 28 showing us the point where “Your covenant with death will be canceled,and your pact with Sheol will not stand” (Isa. 28: 18.)

    Keep the teaching coming. Great stuff.
    Nelson

  • Joel
    Posted at 01:45h, 16 September

    Exactly. The “death and hades” of Revelation is a clear echo of Isa. 28’s “death and sheol.”

    Looking forward to catching you next Friday. Speak soon bro. Blessings

  • Janae
    Posted at 11:15h, 16 September

    Joel, what do you think of the idea of predestination? Some say that the nations of the Middle East today are reenacting the old quarrels of Jacob and Esau. Some say that Arabs today are behaving the same way their ancestor, Ishmael behaved. And, the Bible says that one day, all Israel will be saved. Do all of these things support the idea of predestination?

  • Howard
    Posted at 12:27h, 16 September

    Hi Joel,

    I am encouraged listening to your videos, and just as there are those who think that the next big event necessarily brings us into the last seven-year period, there are also those who think that even while I am writing this Jesus could take us away! Thanks for the sound mind!

    In the Dan 9:27 verse, doesn’t the AC confirm a covenant that has already apparently been made, rather than making a ‘firm covenant’? Couldn’t this be one of his deceptive ways of coming to power? ie, that he is appointed/elected based on a particular platform, but once in power and the opportunity arises, he confirms a covenant that he had previously said he opposed?

    Blessings, and still hoping I can meet you when you come to Israel, and learn from you with your group one day.
    Howard

  • Ken Anderson
    Posted at 14:44h, 16 September

    Hi Joel
    I agree with you conclusions for the most part. Please research the following.
    It is the abomination of desolation that reveals the Anti-Christ not the making of a covenant.
    2Th 2:3-4 ESV Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, (4) who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
    In the Hebrew and the Greek the words “He shall” are not there but are inferred by translators. If you look at the original languages there is no reason to believe that “He will” institute a covenant just that he will break the covenant.
    Dan 9:27 (Brenton) And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.
    (Brenton’s is one example in the Greek) there have been other translators who agree that the common translation is mistaken,
    I think that many will be looking for some kind of treaty maker instead of a covenant breaker.
    I thank you for your hard work and pray for God to lead you as you lead many in these last days. Christ is King.

  • N.
    Posted at 19:21h, 16 September

    Joel,
    your message was excellent, we are so anxious for Christ’s return we forget what needs to happen before we see his Glory. We are closer than ever before, but we must be careful and wait for His coming. I pray for His Kingdom come everyday, but we have to be patience, watchful, and continue to read and have God’s understanding. May God continue to bless you spreading the Good News. I can not say I believe on the rapture, If I die tomorrow I await for the resurrection and a new body.

    I just finished listening to your message “Some Thoughts on Martyrdom” I enjoyed it very much. Thanks again Joel!!!

  • N.
    Posted at 19:26h, 16 September

    For those who have not listened to Joel- Some Thoughts On Martyrdom- I recommend listening to it. here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw83qABdNkI

  • Sam
    Posted at 01:02h, 17 September

    Superb teaching, using the context of the rest of Daniel to prove the character of Daniel 9:27 is the antichrist..and to suggest that those who are looking will not have to wait until the midpoint of the 70th week to know who he is! I have primarily used the NASB as my favored translation, but question whether “firm” in English conveys the proper meaning of the Hebrew “Higbir” or “gabar” which is the Hebrew word used as an operator on the “covenant”. A word search on “gabar” indicates that the most common usage of this term is “to prevail over”, as in Israel gabar Amalek, or prevailed over Amalek….Joel, how do feel the Hebrew word is best translated in this verse?

  • Joel
    Posted at 03:40h, 17 September

    It could either way.

  • Sam
    Posted at 04:06h, 17 September

    The reason I ask is there appears to be a significance as to whether the agreement is one that reinforces a preexisting one, or is a de novo agreement where a stronger party prevails over a weaker party

  • Joel
    Posted at 12:27h, 17 September

    Right, there are actually a few options in terms of what that means, but in light of the other passages which seems to indicate that Israel will “rely” on this covenant, it seems as though it is not something necessarily forced onto them.

  • Nelson Walters
    Posted at 13:11h, 17 September

    Sam,

    Just sticking my two cents in and adding to your thoughts and Joel’s on this very important word. The fact that this word (GABAR) is translated differently by many translators goes to show the meaning isn’t solid. The first use of “GABAR” in scripture (Law of Primacy) is the flood of Noah when the waters “prevailed” upon the earth. There is an aspect of the waters “winning over” the earth. In the same way might the AC “win over” Israel in signing the covenant? Daniel 11:22-23 shows the AC winning a victory over “overflowing” (invading?) forces which seem to include an Israeli commander (Prince of the Covenant). Immediately after this an Agreement is signed. Is this the Covenant with Death, perhaps. Might this Covenant be signed by the Israel after a defeat and from a position of weakness? Perhaps.

    “GABAR” can also have the meaning of “strengthen” as in the flood waters “strengthened” or increased upon the earth 150 days. Might the AC strengthen an existing covenent? Maybe. In the Greek Septuagint this same phrase is translated with the Greek word DUNAMOO which definately means “strengthen.” This would carry the meaning of “make firm” what might have been a less strong agreement in the past.

    So making a very long winded story, short, I agree with Joel, either meaning is possible. Perhaps all aspects of this word will be seen in the signing of this Covenant.

  • Sam
    Posted at 14:14h, 17 September

    Joel and Nelson, thanks much for your comments..Your observation that so many translations portray “GABAR” differently is a good one, and I agree with you that the meaning in this case isnt solid….it’s fun to play around and wonder on the proper meaning, and I suppose we will know the meaning when the event presents itself!

    Another word in the verse of interest to me is “RAB”, translated “many” in the NASB….it seems that “RAB” might include Israel as well as its neighbors

    BTW, I just received your book “Are We Ready for Jesus?” in the mail yesterday, and look forward to digging in…..it is timely, and gets back somewhat to the question “How should we then live?”

    Thanks and blessings
    Sam

  • Alan E. Kurschner
    Posted at 15:41h, 17 September

    What stem a Hebrew verb is found in is very important when determining the meaning of a verb, in this case the hiphil stem, including its context.

    Here is what I have in my book:

    “This verse states “he” will confirm a covenant with many for “one week” (šābûa), which in this Hebrew context denotes seven years. The New English Translation rendering “confirm” may not capture the force of the underlying Hebrew verb gābar. The English Standard Version renders it “make a strong covenant,” which better captures the sense (cf. Ps. 12: 4); but the sense behind the Hebrew may better indicate oppressing, imposing, or coercing, suggesting that the other party to the covenant may not have much say in the matter.

    The verb gābar is in the Hebrew hiphil stem, which expresses causative action. Ludwig Koehler and Walter Baumgartner, The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament, electronic ed., trans. and ed. M. E. J. Richardson (Leiden: Brill, 2000); cf. J. G. Baldwin, Daniel (Downers Grove: InterVarsity, 1978), 171” (_Antichrist Before the Day of the Lord: What Every Christian Needs to Know about the Return of Christ_ (p. 14). Eschatos Publishing.).

  • Sam
    Posted at 18:42h, 17 September

    Thank you much Alan for the clarification! The possibility that the agreement is made not between 2 equal parties, but is coerced or forced from a stronger party onto a weaker party is notable given the atmosphere that continues to build in the UN, the EU, the USA and elsewhere wherein Israel is being asked (leveraged?) to divide the land of the Everlasting Covenant in the form of the two state solution

  • Sam
    Posted at 19:57h, 17 September

    By the way Alan, my wife and I are driving up to watch the debate in Plano on Friday the 26th, see you there!

  • Alan E. Kurschner
    Posted at 02:40h, 18 September

    Sam,

    Excellent, look forward to meeting you. It should be an instructive debate, indeed.

  • Joel
    Posted at 03:00h, 18 September

    I’m still trying to get there, but its about a 50-50 right now.

  • Susie
    Posted at 03:21h, 18 September

    Joel, we just finished listening to Episode 9, very good teaching and pointing back to scripture. You are correct, the body has gone crazy over many different ideas. When we refer people back to the scripture it is hard for them to break ‘old’ teaching. But we tell them, the Scripture has checks and balances….always has other scripture to back up what was just written. This is a perfect example of the teaching you gave. I do have one comment/question…in order to have the anti christ on scene then the Temple would have to be built first. It is still a mystery how they will be able to do this and if it will be exactly on the Temple Mound. What is your opinion on how the Temple will get re-built? Do you think there will be a war and/or the anti christ has a way of having a plan of peace to get the job done. Enjoyed talking with you at Jewish Voice. Thanks for your input.

  • Sam
    Posted at 04:56h, 18 September

    I would love to meet both of you…..most likely I will hide in the audience! But, if a white haired guy comes to shake your hand, his name might be Sam

  • Joel
    Posted at 09:12h, 18 September

    Hi Susie,

    I actually take on the issue of the Temple next week. Bless you!

  • Erik in Texas
    Posted at 15:17h, 18 September

    For the record, I work directly across the street from the Hope Center. Do you guys want me to leave some snacks hidden in a bush for you? I KID!

  • good4u
    Posted at 16:11h, 18 September

    Wow, Joel…what Susie just brought up I did my own research on this very issue this past summer of not only the third temple, but fourth temple as well…it was one of the most insightful undertakings I had conducted regarding the plan of God as He is slowly unfolding those details who watch carefully for His Son’s return. It was as though I walked into the future through the lens of those coming temples. This is all fresh in my mind and I am extremely curious to watch next week’s episode and what you state on this subject.

    Blessings!

  • dbundy
    Posted at 20:48h, 18 September

    Hi Joel,

    May I ask a technical question? Do you have a camera man operating behind the scenes, during your show, or are able to manipulate the camera shots some other way?

  • Joel
    Posted at 21:54h, 18 September

    One camera man.

  • Alan Kurschner
    Posted at 00:11h, 19 September

    Joel

    That would be great, but if you can’t I understand.

  • good4u
    Posted at 09:55h, 19 September

    Hey Joel!

    Because I have a growing interest in the third and fourth temples as a result of my little summer research, I ran across this link but have not read it yet and wanted to pass it along for your feedback. I did quickly peruse the info and found one of the theories that I mention in my PP presentation where it is presumed that the Holy of Holies was located at the Dome of the Spirits which the article claims cannot be substantiated. Not sure I agree with that assessment, but wouldn’t bet my life on it either. There is strong Jewish tradition that does tend to support that the HoH might very well be the Dome of the Spirits. Look forward to seeing this up close and personal with you to discuss in about six weeks as we visit, hopefully, the Temple Mount.

    At any rate, here is the link to take a look at this and more regarding locations of the former temple:

    http://templemountfaithful.org/articles/temple-location.php

    Blessings!

  • Sam
    Posted at 15:56h, 19 September

    good4u, when you go to the Dome of the Spirits, if you walk due east across the open plaza north of the dome of the rock, you will see that the Dome of the Spirits lines directly up with the ancient eastern gate. The significance of this is that the door to the Holy of Holies also is thought to have lined up with the Eastern gate, and the scale model of ancient Jerusalem at the Israel Museum clearly shows this to be the case

  • Ashley
    Posted at 16:15h, 19 September

    Well said! Thank you.

  • Rachel
    Posted at 20:50h, 19 September

    Thank you, Joel! This was really good. Been watching/reading for a long time. What you’re doing is greatly appreciated. God bless you and your family.

  • good4u
    Posted at 02:56h, 20 September

    Sam, indeed that is what I have researched and have included that info on my PP presentation plus there is very strong Jewish tradition regarding sacrifices upon the mount of olives and being able to see the Holy of Holies at the time of the that sacrifice by the priests during the Second Temple period. Tho’ if you read the article that I gave a link to they don’t think much of that position and reject this as false. Frankly, I’m not sure what to think and a bit bewildered by it. Perhaps Joel will address this concern in his forthcoming episode to give us his point of view.

    Blessings!

  • Don Oelke
    Posted at 17:13h, 23 September

    Have been able to access your video series online, but now I get stupid responses saying I can’t access any videos. I am giving monthly already. What gives? It was working last week……

  • Joel
    Posted at 19:15h, 23 September

    Hi Don,

    We have no idea what the technical issue may be. Nothing has changed on our end. We post the videos onto Vimeo each week, and use the same method. Someone posts them all on Youtube as well:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNhV8labWvZ4wdv9PABRkJA

  • Justin Morales
    Posted at 05:17h, 29 September

    Joel now this may be a stupid question, but does the rapture have to take place before the return of Jesus.

  • Joel
    Posted at 11:37h, 29 September

    The Rapture happens at the return of Jesus.

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