One of the Danielic passages that has plagued interpreters is Daniel 8:14, wherein two angels, Gabriel and another, are discussing the vision of Daniel 8, specifically the little horn, the desolating sacrilege he will carry out against the Jewish temple, and how long it will take for these things to be completed, until the temple is “properly restored”. The specific time frame designated is “2,300 evenings and mornings.” In this short article, I will explain my conclusion concerning this time period.
Because this commentary pertains only to a small segment of the larger passage, I should say that I espouse the “consistent-futurist interpretation” of this passage. What this means is that many futurist interpreters look at the vision of Daniel 8 and divide it into two segments. Verses 3-8, which speak of the ram, the goat, and the four conspicuous horns that emerge out of the goat, are interpreted as being historical. Verses 9-12, which speak of the little horn, are interpreted as having an historical fulfillment in Antiochus Epiphanies, but only as a type, whereas its ultimate fulfillment is in the last days in the person of Antichrist. The consistent-futurist interpretation views the whole vision as having its ultimate fulfillment in the last days. The events of history serve only as a type.
Now let’s consider the meaning of the 2,300 evenings and mornings.
After seeing the vision of the ram, the goat and the small horn, Daniel then overhears one angel ask the other, “How long will the vision about the regular sacrifice apply, while the transgression causes horror, so as to allow both the holy place and the host to be trampled?” (v. 13). The answer, given by the second angel is: “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored” (v. 14).
A straight-forward reading of the text would inform us from the time the small horn begins his acts of desolating and trampling both the temple and the holy people, until the temple is restored, there will be “2,300 evenings and mornings.” The question is, what exactly does this mean? Commentators are thoroughly divided. According to John Walvoord, determining the meaning of this riddle has sparked, “almost endless exegetical controversy.”1 There are five primary opinions among interpreters. We will consider each view below.
The year-day interpretation: The first approach, what we can call the day-year interpretation, holds that the 2,300 “evenings and mornings” should be understood symbolically to refer to 2,300 literal years. This view has been espoused by Seventh Day Adventists Uriah Smith, Jacques B. Doukhan, and Desmond Ford.2 This approach was also used by William Miller (d.1849), leading him to claim that Christ would return sometime between 1843 and 1844.3 Of course, when Christ didn’t return, the resulting disillusionment among students of Miller became infamously know as “The Great Disappointment.”
Most commentators today are divided between those who believe the 2,300 evenings and mornings simply refer to 2,300 actual days, and those who argue that “evenings and mornings” should be understood as separate units, thus leading them to divide the number 2,300 in half, pointing to only 1,150 days.
The 1,150 day interpretation (applied to Antiochus): According to John Whitcomb, the “1,150 day theory face[s] insuperable obstacles.”4 Foremost among these obstacles is the timeframe of Antiochus’ acts of desolating the temple. In December of 167 BC, Antiochus’ men set up an altar to Zeus in the temple. Just over three years later, he died on December 14, 164 BC. This simply doesn’t equate to exactly 1,150 days, falling short by about two months.
The 2,300 day interpretation (applied to Antiochus): For those who seek to connect 2,300 days to the historical career of Antiochus, the same problems persists. 2,300 days, roughly six years and four months, simply does not align with the period of time that Antiochus desolated the temple. Stephen R. Miller takes this view, placing the terminus a quo, or beginning point of the 2,300 days with the murder of Onias III, the former high priest, in 171 BC.5 But Gleason L. Archer Jr. rightfully highlights the problems with this view:
Moreover, there is not the slightest historical ground for a terminus a quo beginning in 171 B.C. While it is true that the interloper Menelaus murdered the legitimate high priest Onias III in that year, there was no abridgment of the temple services at that early date. It was not until the following year that Antiochus looted the temple of its treasure, and the abolition of the tāmîd [the daily offering]… did not take place till 167.6
Even John Walvoord, who himself also holds this position, comes across as quite resigned to the fact that this view is far from precise:
Although the evidence available today does not offer fulfillment to the precise day, the twenty-three hundred days, obviously a round number, is relatively accurate in defining the period when the Jewish religion began to erode under the persecution of Antiochus, and the period as a whole concluded with his death.7
Needless to say, the best this view can offer is a vaguely close match to an ill-defined period of persecution. Worse yet, the the text simply does not refer to a general persecution, but is quite specific in referring to the ceasing of the “regular sacrifice” and the trampling of the “holy place.”
Ultimately, the inability of either number, 1,150 or 2,300, to align with the period of Antiochus’ persecution leads us to conclude that this portion of the vision is not ultimately pointing to Antiochus’ historical persecution of the Jewish people, but instead, it must apply to the Antichrist, and is yet to be fulfilled in the future. But we are still left with the question as to which number is correct, a full 2,300 days or half that time, pointing to 1,150 days.
The 2,300 day interpretation (applied to Antichrist): I believe that any serious consideration of the arguments for both positions will lead one to acknowledge that a far more solid case stands for 2,300 days as opposed to half that number. C.F. Keil has set the bar in offering the best argument for this position, devoting nine pages to this one issue. His argument summarized is that the phrase “evenings and mornings” would have been clearly understood as referring to a single day and a “Hebrew reader could not possibly understand” it to mean anything other than 2,300 days.8 Keil points out that in Old Testament usage, an evening and morning specified a complete day. This is the usage throughout the entire first chapter of the Bible in fact, describing the first week of creation: “And there was evening and there was morning, one day” (Gen. 1:5). It is the same usage during the flood wherein we have “forty days and forty nights” (Gen. 7:4,12). And so also is the phrase “three days and three nights” used to simply refer to three days as in Jonah 1:17 or by Jesus in Matthew 12:40. And finally, in Matthew 4:2, we read that after Jesus “fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry.” Jesus fasted for forty days, not twenty, and certainly not eighty.
Conclusion:
What time period within the Antichrist’s career then does the 2,300 days point to? I believe there are two good options, depending on how one translates and understands verse 13. Both the KJV and the NIV for instance, read as if the angel is listing three or four things that fall within the 2,300 days:
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? (KJV)
“How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the LORD’s people?” (NIV)
The first view then, looking to such translations, sees the 2,300 days as applying entirely to the tāmîd (the daily sacrifice); its beginning, ceasing, and finally its restoration. This view then would start counting the 2,300 days when the regular offering is reinstated, early on in the first half of the final seven years before Jesus returns, and see its conclusion when the temple or sacrifices are restored, shortly after His return.
The second option, supported more by the NASB translation, sees the 2,300 days as revolving around the desolating acts of the Antichrist, particularly as they apply to the tāmîd daily sacrifice. This view then begins counting when the regular offerings cease, at the middle of the week, when the Antichrist begins his work of desolation and concludes after Jesus returns and the temple is rebuilt and restored.
Because the time of the Antichrist’s desolations within the temple lasts 3.5 years, this leaves approximately 1,040 days, or roughly two years and ten months after Jesus’ return, until the temple is completely restored.
Regardless as to which view one takes, what is clear is that neither 1,150 or 2,300 days can be made to apply to Antiochus in a way that clearly satisfies the text.
Sources cited:
1. John F. Walvoord, Daniel: The Key to Prophetic Revelation (Chicago, Moody, 1989) p. 188
2. Uriah Smith, The Sanctuary and the Twenty-three Hundred Days of Daniel 8:14 (Battle Creek, Michigan, Steam Press, 1877) pp. 21-23, 95-101; Doukhan, Jacques B., Daniel: The Vision of the End, (Berrien Springs, MI, Andrews University Press, 1987) pp. 23-36; Ford, Desmond, Daniel (Nashville, Southern Publishing Association, 1978) p. 189
3. K. Boa, Cults, World Religions, and You (Wheaton, Victor, 1977) p. 90
4. Whitcomb, John C. Daniel (Chicago, Moody Press, 1985) p. 113
5. Miller, Stephen R. Daniel. Vol. 18. The New American Commentary. (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1994) pp. 229-230
6. Archer Jr., Gleason L. Daniel, Vol. 7. The Expositor’s Bible Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI, Zondervan, 1985) p. 103
7. Walvoord, p. 185
8. Keil, Carl Friedrich, and Franz Delitzsch. Commentary on the Old Testament. Vol. 9. (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1996) pp. 693-694
87 Responses
Great article.
I think the Jews will rebuild Herod’s temple on the temple mount. But I think the correct location for the temple is in the City of David, south of the temple mount. So I think they will build Ezekiel’s temple in the City of David beginning after Christ returns. I saw a great documentary on this but I can’t remember it’s name. Two years and ten months sounds about right for the building of Ezekiel’s temple.
Thanks Joel,
Philip Brown
I do like that Joel, i have read all the explanations and can truly say i do not have an answer. I have always thought that this scripture was entirely for end times though. I like the simplicity of matching the evenings and mornings to that mentioned in Gen 1:5 .
I don’t find it contradicts Daniel 12:11-13 which says that the end will be thirty days then seventy five days into the millennium, maybe Daniel in ch12 is referring to when the wickedness ends, and as you point out ch 8 referring to the temple being properly restored. I like that.(but i am open to being wrong)
Will finally be showing your DVD next week, though not everyone is interested as they say it is scare mongering, which is sad.
May i wish your family and self, together with your readers a very prosperous
new year, may we all see the hand of our God in our lives, surpassing all our natural ability.
Joel,
Arutz Sheva (Israel National News) had an interesting article titled: “Muslim Scholar Calls for Jewish Place of Worship on Temple Mount”.
Cant enter the weblink here but seems to correspond to what you have been saying about how the Jewish worship will once again begin.
Joel,
Blessings. Great article and very good topic for discussion. I agree with the conclusion that the best interpretation for the 2,300 evenings and mornings refers to a period of 2,300 days and not the half, and a complete fulfilment with the Antichrist.
If I understood your conclusion correctly, you are saying that this period is divided in to two parts, one of 1,260 days, the time of the Antichrist persecution (Dan 7:25; Dan 9:27; Dan 12:7; Rev 11:2; Rev 13:5) and sacrificial system abolished and setting of the abomination of desolation , and another of 1,040 days period as from the return of Jesus (at the end of the 7 year time-frame, post tribulation) until complete restoration of the temple. In other words, the starting point of this 2,300 period would be the mid-point of the 7 year period (Dan 9:27) and extends 2 years and over 10 months into the Millennium.
From your conclusion, I assume you consider the phrase in verse 13 “… the vision concerning the daily sacrifice” as being actually the absence of the daily sacrifices when the Antichrist put an ended to them (Dan 9:27; Dan 11:3; Dan 12:11) and sets up the transgression or abomination of desolation that makes the sanctuary and host be trodden under foot. In your article, you are using the NASB translation, which includes the word “while” connecting the “daily or regular sacrifices” to the “transgression that causes horror”. However, reading from many other translations, including the KJV does not have the word “while”, and instead the word “and”. Many of the modern language translations alter the phrase a little bit including words like “taking away, abolished or removal”, i.e. The Message Bible says “How long is what we see here going to last–the abolishing of daily worship”. How would the original text have the phrase? Is the word “and” connecting the “daily sacrifices” and “transgression that causes desolations” in the original text? If the original text has an “and”, couldn’t the interpretation of the verse alone require to sets of periods, one with the actual daily or regular sacrifices being made or offered and another with the cessation of the sacrifices and establishment of the abomination of desolation?
The bottom line is to understand properly what does the “vision of the daily sacrifices” actually mean. What is the vision? Is the vision concerning the sacrifices being offered or the cessation or termination of the sacrifices? I know that the immediate context of the verse emphasizes the removal of the daily sacrifices, even Dan 9:27 does.
If this is the case, the vision mentioned in verse 13 as related to the removal and not the offering of the daily sacrifices, then the time frame of 1,040 days should be applied to the beginning stages into the Millennium.
However, if the vision of verse 13 refers to the actual offering of the daily sacrifices, then we would have a different scenario regarding the 1,040 days as being the time when the sacrificial system would be reestablished in the rebuilt temple, only a couple months into the 7 year treaty or covenant made with many.
Blessings,
Perry Brown
Hi Perry,
Yes, I see the 2,300 days extending from the mid-point of the final seven years, which is the time that the Abomination of Desolations begins. Thus from the time the ceasing of offerings begins until the temple, assuming including the system of sacrifices described in Ezekiel 40-48, will be restored.
Bless you brother.
b”h
Shalom Joel,
Holiday greetings. Thanks for posting this concise survey on this issue of 2,300 evenings and mornings. Though I’ve studied the passage for many years I have not come to a conclusion that I would say was air tight. But, like you, I do think the 2,300 evenings and mornings probably relate to full days, and not to the actual Tamid sacrifices which are offered twice a day in the evening and morning (though I only remember them described in the Torah as “morning and evening”). So while there might be some support for the suppression of 1,150 days of “twice-a-day” Tamid offerings, that would conflict with the three and a half years that the Desolation is said to be in place that causes the offerings to cease.
I’ve just read through the passage in Hebrew, and like Perry above, I would say that the translation of verse 13 that you’ve listed does smooth things out quite a bit. As I read the Hebrew it occurs to me that the question being asked may refer not merely to the moment that the Tamid offering is suppressed, but it may refer to some amount of time before that moment – as the “Little Horn” gains power in the Middle East – and this short timeframe is reflected in verses 9 and 10 which occurs before the suppression of the Tamid offering. If this is the case, then the 2,300 days could be shifted forward a bit from the Desolation at the 3.5 year half-way mark. It might take some two years for the “Little Horn” to gain enough power to feel confident to invade Israel and set up the Desolation which suppresses the Tamid offering. I think this is what Perry is suggesting.
The vision of Dan 7 was given in the first year of Belshazzar, while the vision of Dan 8 was given in the third year of Belshazzar. So it makes fair sense to me that Dan 8 is a further amplification of at least parts of Dan 7. That vision has a “Little Horn” that arises that overthrows three of the ten horns. If that Little Horn is the same person as the Little Horn in Dan 8 (and I think it is), then it would take some amount of time to arise and overthrow the three horns and gain power to be able to invade Israel. So while I don’t have a final opinion at the moment, I think it is fair to also consider that the 2,300 evenings and mornings might start a little before the Desolation at the 3.5 year mark. Nice article!
Best wishes in Messiah.
Hello Hanoch,
Great to hear from you. This short article is a segment of a chapter I am working on addressing Daniel 8 for a forthcoming book. Concerning verse 13 and the 2,300 evenings and mornings, I would feel fairly confident that it begins at the mid-point of the final shabuwa / the beginning of the 3.5 years. First, there must be some definable time that would mark the beginning of this time. The mid-point seems to be such a repeated point of emphasis throughout Daniel. Second, the events seems to pertain to the issues previously discussed in the vision, the most significant of which is the desolation of the temple as well as the casting down of the stars/host of heaven. While some attempt to interpret these stars as leaders of Israel, (which is the case in the following verses) I cannot justify calling mere humans, “host of heaven” or stars. references to being as numerous as the stars or singing like the stars are not sufficient proof texts, though many turn to these. Every reference to stars of heaven or host of heaven in Scripture seem to point to angelic beings. This must be the same event described in Revelation 12, which is the casting out of Satan, (the accuser of our brethren), and his angels from heaven at the mid-point. This would correlate with the other passages in Daniel which speak of the Abomination of Desolations as well as in the Olivet Discourse. While I would not take a dogmatic position on this matter, the more I peer into it, the more clear it seems to become. I am also leaning toward chapter 7 having some kind of end time fulfillment, although I am not nearly as convinced of this as I am of Daniel 8.
Concerning Daniel 8 however, if we do in fact take a consistent-futurist approach, as opposed to dividing the vision up into segments as most do, it would speak of an Iranian invasion to break out into the ME. Of course, to some degree this has already begun in Iraq, I think what is being described there is much more significant and deliberate. Time will tell. If this does take place, I think we can confidently understand what would come next, and this would become one of the greatest go to texts for the purpose of apocalyptic evangelism in the days ahead.
Hope you are well. Blessings!
Joel
I believe that you meant “Antiochus’ ” in this paragraph. You may like to make a correction to your article to remove this glitch in your article.
The 1,150 day interpretation (applied to Antiochus): According to John Whitcomb, the “1,150 day theory face[s] insuperable obstacles.”4 Foremost among these obstacles is the timeframe of Antiochus’ acts of desolating the temple. In December of 167 BC, Alexander’s men set up an altar to Zeus in the temple. Just over three years later, he died on December 14, 164 BC. This simply doesn’t equate to exactly 1,150 days, falling short by about two months.
With regards to the 2,300 days/years of the Dan 8 prophecy, it would be better to consider that the trampling of the sanctuary of began initially with the Hellenistic influence on the Israelite culture and manner of looking at things around the year 250 BC and that it progressively increased as the influence of the third beast grew in dominance in the events of the world. Also Paul made reference to “the fullness of the gentile heathens” with respect to the time of their trampling of the sanctuary as an indicator of when all of Israel will be saved. Sadly there are also many interpretations as to what Paul meant with this phase as well.
Jesus also used a similar phrase/expression in Luke to describe the same marker in history with respect to the end times.
Shalom
Jay Ross
Thanks Jay. Yes, not sure how Alexander got in there. Some commentators speak of this as a gradual thing, but the language of trampling the temple is not a gradual or passive event. The question the angel asks is quite specific. Blessings.
Joel,
Howzit going, interesting article.
I read in the Last Shofar book that there would be a number of days of judgement when Jesus comes, i.e. it wont be an instant event but will last a while as He goes from nation to nation. (in Isaiah theres a bit dealing with the people of Cush, saying how they will hear of things happening to their north and will tremble…indicating enough time for news to travel).
Would your calculations on 1040 days take this into consideration?
Joel
I believe I follow your reasoning on this. I was thinking as I was reading your post that that seven year agreement and the beginning of sacrifices would not follow necessarily at the same time but rather eight months later. Is this a possibility that would fit?
Hi Gary,
The covenant with many that is made for one “seven” or sabbath cycle of years (Dan. 9:24-27), is broken in the middle. So 3.5 years after the covenant is made, it is broken and the Abomination that Causes Desolation is set up.
Hi Joel,
Excellent article. If this holds that the 2,300 days starts at the 3.5 year mark “this leaves approximately 1,040 days, or roughly two years and ten months after Jesus’ return, until the temple is completely restored.” Can we then add Daniel 12:11 & Daniel 12:12 to your Daniel 8:14 example of “timing issues” that are triggered at the 3.5 year mark and take us beyond Jesus’ return?
This would give us three timing “countdowns” starting at the 3.5 year point.
1) Daniel 12:11 – “1,290 days” – Starts at the 3.5 year mark: 30 days after Jesus Returns???
2) Daniel 12:12 – “1,335 days” – Starts at the 3.5 year mark: 75 days after Jesus Returns???
3) Daniel 8:14 – “2,300 days” – Starts at the 3.5 year mark: 1,040 days after Jesus Returns???
What are the key points the Holy Spirit is emphasizing by these “after Jesus’ returns” timing Scriptures? I’m sure there are many important divine insights to glean, but I am having a hard time getting my head around their significance. Anyone have any insights or comments on this?
Thanks,
Jay-Virginia
Concerning the 2,300 days, the other option is that it starts when sacrifices begin and end sometime after Jesus returns. This would mean that sacrifices begin roughly 8 months after the covenant is made at the beginning of the seven year period.
As far as the 1290 and 1335, these seem to correlate with Jewish Feast days. This is where the book Final Shofar will be helpful.
Note: I have updated the conclusion of the article to allow for another option.
thanks for this Joel. I don’t really understand this. Why would Jesus restore the jewish temple? It was part of an inferior covernant and replaced by the body of Christ, His people, corporately. Revelation does not have a restored temple, it has a city which camps around the presence of God, and God is Himself its light. What place does a temple have?
Do you see the levite priesthood being replaced as well? Again, this is an inferior covernant, and in any case why would we need sacrifices, priests or alters anymore when Jesus is the great High Priest who enables all of us to encounter God by grace. This doesn’t add up to me.
Revelation has no temple in it, just God living with His people, doesn’t it?
Hi DJ,
During the 1000 years, there is a restored temple in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 40-48 has the floor plan for this in tremendous detail. The various references to there not being a temple in Revelation are concerning the New Heavens and the New Earth that comes after the 1000 years. While it is true that the New Covenant is superior to the Mosaic, and that only the atoning work of Christ can atone for sin, this does not mean that all temple services are now utterly void. For example, clearly, well after the time that Christ died on the cross, Paul the Apostle participated in the temple services:
If Paul continued to offer sacrifices, then was he in sin? Or did he have a better understanding than most modern Christians who have a very limited and negative view of the entire Old Testament?
Hebrews 10:8-10 makes it clear there is no need for the old system/covenant.
Imagine you are Jewish and you think you are the chosen people. Wouldnt you think you need a Temple to cleanse your sins prior to the Messiah appearing. They do this out of their blindness to fail to see the provision God made by offering his Son, once for all sinners.
Not Jewish personally but do understand that sacrifices had their purposes in attitudes toward seriousness of sin toward unsaved Jews that could charge him as going against and undermining the Law. Paul knew the difference between those sacrifices and the salvation through Christ’s atoning work. Michael Boaz and FFOZ have some really good material explaining Paul’s sacrifices.
Wonderful article Joel. Wonderful.
I personally have a difficult time imagining animal sacrifices in the Kingdom. Perhaps they will be offerings of a different sort?
I did a little math regarding the Jewish Feast Days and your dates. If the 1290 days ends on Yom Kippur then 1335 lands on Hanukkah. This is fairly well known. In select years 1040 days from Yom Kippur falls tantalizingly close to 17 Tammuz which is currently a fast day. But Zech. teaches it will become a day of gladness.
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘The fast of the fourth, the fast of the fifth, the fast of the seventh and the fast of the tenth months will become joy, gladness, and cheerful feasts for the house of Judah; so love truth and peace. Zech 8:19 NASB
This is interesting because 17 Tammuz is a very dark day for Jews currently. The restoration of the temple on that day would definitely fit with turning that holiday around into a day of gladness.
This is not date setting, just considering some possibilities.
Thanks Nelson. Blessings.
I’m gonna stick my foot into this a bit because I read too much and I don’t remember the source now…but from what I remember there will be different types of sacrifices for different reasons conducted within the temple and why the priestly order will again be necessary. One sacrifice will be for a memorial during the millennial reign for what Christ did for us to secure salvation. I understand that is what the Lord’s Communion is currently that believer’s use as a sacrament. But that is only until Christ returns to establish his physical reign and temporary until His return. I’m sorry, that is all I can remember.
Blessings!
There’s no doubt that it is a difficult issue as to the purposes of the sacrifices and offerings, but it is quite clear they will take place. Efforts on the part of amillennialists to allegorize all of Ezekiel 40-48 are so absurd that they would make even Origen blush.
One thing regarding the last 2 chapters of Ezekiel that I see as important are the borders of Israel. The Jews when adopting a national flag were keenly aware of Ezekiel. The two blue lines on the Israeli flag represent the Euphrates and Nile rivers with the star of David resting in between.
The Jews believe their borders will be expanded beyond their current borders to reflect those spoken of in Ezekiel. This is called ‘Eretz Yisrael'(Greater Israel). Many believe the disruption in Iraq and Syria will ultimately give way to Israel claiming more land to fulfill the prophecy.
Here is a take on the 2300 days – very simplistic – maybe too much so – but perhaps it is just the total time the temple stands before it is cleansed by Yeshua. In other words, the Covenant is confirmed which begins the 7 years – it “settles” the issues of Jerusalem and allows for a temple to be built. It takes approximately 7 months to build it ala Solomon. 7 years – 7+ months = 2300 days left. Am I off?
The only thing that gives me pause is the “casting down of the host of heaven” which you are right Joel must refer to angels IMO. That would tie it to Rev. 12, BUT the text in Dan. 8 seems to says the AC himself will be casting down the stars, not Michael in heaven. He also “tramples them” which would seem to suggest they are not aligned with him…
I was reading the comments last night regarding the reinstitution of some feasts and offerings, Zechariah 14 came to mind. No one would deny that this chapter is about the second coming:
v4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives…..
Something lovely is that the same living waters that flow from Jerusalem into the sea after the second coming:
v8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Are also spoken of in Ezekiel 47
v8-9 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
Clearly these living waters, according to Zechariah flow after the second coming, which also places Ez40-48 post day of the Lord.
Back in Zechariah we read that the feast of Tabernacles will be celebrated post Day of the Lord:
14v16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Also the last two verses are undeniable.
v20-21 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
There will be a temple post Day of the Lord, along with some sacrifices.
I agree with good4u, the offerings will be as a memorial, maybe for the purpose of teaching the nations about Christ’s ultimate sacrifice.
A few months ago i had the joy of realising the truth behind a song we sometimes sing “there is a river” based on Psalm 46, its a song of the river
spoken of by Zecharia and Ezekiel.
Apart from the Dates of feasts ect, im finding that Gods word is not really
difficult at all, its a real blessing.
“Eretz Israel” does not mean “Greater Israel.” It simply means the land (eretz) of Israel. While some early Zionists desired to see a greater expanded Israel, no one is expecting that any longer in modern times. The expectation is that when Messiah comes back, the land will be expanded. I agree with this. The Scriptures are clear. But the idea that Israel is going to expand its territories as claimed by proponents of the Psalm 83 War theory are simply unscriptural and if I am to be honest, rather absurd. Israel is not going to occupy any Arab nations this side of the return of Jesus. A relevant article on this is here:
https://joelstrumpet.com/?p=5731
Christopher,
What you’ve said is similar to the first option I mention above. Its possible.
The text in Daniel says the AC causes the stars to fall, whereas in Rev. it is Satan, the great dragon who cause the stars to fall. (As you point out, it is Michael, who effects the actual removal, but it was Satan’s initial rebellion that made this removal inevitable).
Some see the fact that in one passage it is the Antichrist who causes the age stop fall, whereas in the other it is the dragon as a contradiction, but it is no different than Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 where Satan and the AC essential meld from one into the other. The AC is simply Satan’s actor here on the earth. The use of the term “trample” does not rule out alignment, as much as shows what the results of his acts produce for these stars. Their being cast down is the result of submitting to and following the dragon’s initial rebellion.
Joel, after reading all of Daniel 8, it would seem to me that there are a number of time stamps given which points to the present time. They are, v19,”the latter end of the indignation {The trampling of the sanctuary} for it refers to the end of the appointed time of the end {of the indignation}. And v23, “when the transgressors {Israel} have reached their limit,” which has yet to happen in our near future.
Since there has been around 2,000 years since the temple was raised, while the sanctuary was being trampled by the heathen gentiles, I would suggest that the 2,300 days can be understood to 2,300 years from when Israel first came under the influence of Hellenism and increased their indignation and iniquity against God.
The above is my reasoning to accept the 2,300 years as the prophecy’s duration.
Shalom
Jay,
If the Bible says “evenings and mornings,” it would be rather irresponsible, in my opinion, to read it as speaking of years.
saying “evenings and mornings” is just another way of saying “days”.
Genesis 1:5.
Hi Joel,
The second view makes more sense to me, the one that starts with the taking away of the daily sacrifice. First because of what the Biblical text says in the Hebrew. Regarding it leaving roughly two years and ten months after Jesus’ return, until the temple is completely restored, there are several factors to consider.
1) There will be massive disaster and rubble all over the land left over from the great tribulation, and not just from the Antichrist army, but from all the plagues that will come upon the earth, and the day of wrath is doing to burn up a large portion of northern Israel. It will take some time to purify the land and rebuild. Ezekiel 39:9-16 talks about it taking years.
2) Malachi 3:3 talks about Yeshua bringing the sons of Levi into an acceptable state of ritual purity in order that they may offer to the Lord an acceptable Mincha offering. Obviously after the great tribulation various things will be necessary to set up in order to achieve this.
3) The millennial temple is not going to be the same temple which will sit on mount Zion which the Antichrist will defile, but a massive temple built in a slightly different location. If God wants His people to build for him this Holy House, that will also take some time.
That’s clear to me from the Biblical text is that the days start from the day that the daily sacrifice is taken away, whenever that is.
Shalom and blessings!
Joel,
I am curious as to what extent or purpose sacrifice would have after Christ returns? Let me paint this in a different light. Sometime during the last 7 years of this age, temple sacrifices are restored among the jewish peoples. Then the AC stops the sacrifices and desolates the holy of holies. Then Christ descends with the voice of an archangel and the sound of a trumpet. He then destroys the AC, the beast, and his followers.
Now at this point the 1,000 year reign of Christ on this earth begins. The purpose of sacrifices is for the forgiveness of sins. Christ died for all sin ever committed before and after His ultimate sacrifice on the cross. Those of us in Christ need not offer a sacrifice. Once Christ returns to establish His millennial reign, Even the jews that didn’t believe before will believe at that point. So again, what would be the need for sacrifices after Christ returns which you argue could be what the 2,300 days means?
Just looking for some clarification.
Ron,
I apologize but I simply do not have the time to unpack this as fully as it deserves. I didn’t intend to open this can of worms, as it is a fairly hefty theological matter.
But in brief, to respond to your concerns, the idea that all sacrifices are for forgiveness of sins is simply not true. This is a popular misconception among Christians who are so far removed from the sacrificial system that they can barely relate to it whatsoever. Nor are most familiar with the passages that speak of it in the Mosaic Law. In truth, the majority of sacrifices were for issues of ritual purity, particularly in light of the fact that God’s Glory dwelt with Israel. Maintaining temporal ritual purity, and a host of other issues make up the vast majority of the sacrifices. There were also thank offerings, sin offerings, etc., etc.
Second, the sacrifices that take place during the millennium are not a going back to the Law of Moses, but a going forward into the New Covenant. While Ezekiel is clear that there will be sacrifices during this time, it is also clear that there are many changes to the rituals during the millennium. The Temple itself is massive, over a mile in length. There will be a new priesthood after Zadok rather than the Levitical priesthood. There are numerous changes or differences.
A third matter to take into consideration is the fact that there will be various types of people on the earth during the millennium. There will be those who have been glorified. There will be those who have not been glorified in their natural bodies. And their will even be unbelievers among the nations, though few. Precisely how we will elate to those in their natural bodies is yet to be seen. Whether we will be readily present or more in the background, I do not know.
As much as it is a complicated matter, the Scriptures are clear that there will in fact be sacrifices during this time. Mine is not to fully understand the future in every detail now. I simply trust what the Scriptures state and leave room for Him to explain it when He returns.
Here is an article for you to consider:
https://joelstrumpet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Problem-of-Sacrifices-PDF.pdf
Blessings,
Joel
Greetings for the new year, Joel.
The millennial priesthood under Zadok is the continuation of the Levitical priesthood. Zadok is a descendant of Phineas, to whom YHVH promised a covenant of peace for an everlasting (through history) representative, and he was a descendant of Eleazar, son of Aaron, to whom an everlasting priesthood was promised (again, through time/history. This is not the same as the Melchizedek priesthood, obviously). God keeps His covenant through to the end. Jeremiah 33 also speaks of those who think that God is done with the families of David and of Levi. Praise God! There is none like Him!
Blessings for a fruitful 2015,
Howard
Thanks Howard. Blessings.
happy New Year Joel.
In regard to the temple, you say that these are not sin offerings, but why then does the text say that they are: Ezekial 44:27 which says that the priests are “to offer a sin offering for himself”.
It also has a load of rules that are directly related to the Old Covernant, such as not touching dead bodies, purifying the alter with the blood of bulls and goats. All this runs directly contrary to Paul’s teaching in Hebrews that says that it is impossible for the blood of bulls to cleanse us from sin, and that we have a better covenant.
I don’t understand this Joel. Do you believe that in the Millenium we will all go backwards, and no longer be priests ourselves as believers, and have to rely on animal scrifices again?
Can you explain? I couldn’t open the link you posted.
DJ,
Of course I do not believe we will “go backwards.” The link works fine for me. I am not sure what the issue might be. Again, it is a complicated matter, but what Paul says in His epistles is in no way contrary to the prophets which came before him. There will clearly be sacrifices during the millennium.
Joel is correct, DJ, the link Joel cited on sacrifices works just fine for me as well. I suggest you upgrade your Adobe Reader flash player and that may take care of it.
Blessings!
God saw the millennial temple so important to mention he spent nine entire chapters on it! That’s a lot of real estate!
In Acts 3:21 it says Yeshua must remain in heaven until:
“until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets…”
The restoration of all things includes the Holy Temple.
We know from history that the original Jewish Believers that lived after the destruction of the second temple were looking for it to be rebuilt in the future, and not just them, but there were also Gentile Christians who had the same future hope. At the end of the day it comes down to whether or not you accept the Word of God in a simple pure childlike faith or whether you look down your nose on it saying, nah, that doesn’t make sense to me, so I reject what God prophesied by His holy prophets what must happen…
The nine chapters, that is, from Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48…
Thanks for that link, Joel.
I’ll be sharing it with some friends:
https://joelstrumpet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Problem-of-Sacrifices-PDF.pdf
It is my understanding, for whatever that’s worth, that the sacrifices during the Millennial Kingdom are for Israel, and perhaps the nations, too, since they go up to Jerusalem at least each year during the Feast of Booths.
Believers who are holy and blessed to have part in the first resurrection, to rule and reign with Christ/Messiah during the 1000 years, will not be offering any sacrifices of those kinds.
I also believe, that if any believers in Jesus offer sacrifices at the coming “holy place” that becomes the antichrist’s “temple throne”, they are departing from the Lord, and will be in grave danger, if not worse. For us, there is no more sacrifice for sin. We offer sacrifices of thanks, of praise, and living sacrifices of ourselves in service to God.
As I see it, we have the following span of time to define:
1) 1260 Days (Which I believe will be the “Reign of the Antichrist,” and run from the AOD to Yom Kippur—Armageddon).
2) 1290 Days (Which I believe will be the “Destruction of the Antichrist,” and run from the stop of sacrifices—one month before AOD to Yom Kippur—Armageddon)
3) 1335 Days (Which I believe will be the “Until the Rule of Christ,” and run from the AOD to Hanukkah).
4) 2300 Days (Which according to Joel article will run from AOD to sometime in the future.)
Anyone have any ideas to the significance of the date or event of (2300-1260) 1,040 days after Jesus’ Return (Armageddon)?
AOD – Abomination of Desolation.
David, what do you say to the verse in Hebrews that says that these things (law and temple) were a mere shadow until the real thing came along? So the restoration of all things would be when heaven – which is what the temple represents – comes on the earth at the return of Christ.
Personally after looking at the link and rereading Hebrews and Ezekial I think there can only be one interpretation of Ezekial’s temple, and it a picture of the church’s ministry in the earth. Why else would water flow out of the sanctuary bringing life to the world?
Paul is very very clear that the old is obsolete and was about to disappear. It disappeared in AD 70. Paul did not say about t disappear until it is reestablished taking a backward step going back to the time before the cross.
I doubt Joel will let me publish this, but all views are valid.
DJ,
The problem is the view that these things are in conflict. They need not be. Why did Paul continue to participate in the Temple sacrificial system?
Two things are being merged here that, in my understanding now, should not be:
1. The Temple is primarily for Israel, and the Millennial Temple is no exception to that. The nations (Gentiles) seem to have a part in this, too. With the modifications which the New Covenant brings in, there is still the Levitical priesthood functioning (again with the New Covenant differences). God, in His wisdom, sees a place for the sacrificial system to teach the reality of the price of sin: every blood sacrifice that is offered up is going to be understood that Jesus had to die for them. The Levites will offer sacrifices in righteousness. This sacrificial system is ONLY FOR THOSE IN THE FLESH during the 1000 years. First-resurrection believers have no more need of any blood sacrifice, already now and in the age to come.
The waters going out from the Temple are not ‘spiritual’, and the Dead Sea — now the saltiest body of water on Earth where virtually nothing lives — is going to become a living body of water teeming with fish.
2. The Scriptures do not necessarily say that Paul participated in his own offerings for sin, etc. But even if he did, God was weaning the Israeli believers from the old system, just as a nursing mother weans her baby from her nursing; or as the Lord took 40 years of leading His redeemed people through the desert to wean them away from the ways of Egypt that they had become accustomed to. The Letter to the Hebrews stresses just this point for the [especiall] Jewish believers: the Temple and its sacrifices are passing away in Messiah/Christ — get ready and do not go back. There is something far better for those IN CHRIST.
Sir Isaac Newton wrote: “The Jews kept no account of time by days longer then a month. They counted the age of the Moon or days of the Month, & the Moons or Months in a year, but their years consisted of no certain number of days: and for Daniel to tell the Jews of an exact period of 2300 natural days when they had no method in use of counting that number nor could determine by their years & months the number of days in any time past, would have been very improper. And therefore days in this prophesy as well as in all the rest of Daniel’s prophesies, are types of years, & the 2300 years are not yet expired” (http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/view/texts/normalized/THEM00388).
I wonder if the prophecy speaks both as one drawn out over a long period of 2300 years, as Sir Isaac Newton saw it, and finally, as one quickly wrapped up in a mere 2300 days at the time of the end. The prophecy would speak both to the ancient Jews, who did not have a way of counting 2300 days, and to the modern Jews, who do.
As far as what triggers the begining of the 2300 days, Newton said wisely: “This part of the prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it. Let time be the Interpreter.”
Christopher,
In response to your comment concerning sacrifices (specifically, for sin offerings) and Hebrews:
“Hebrews 10:8-10Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) makes it clear there is no need for the old system/covenant.
Imagine you are Jewish and you think you are the chosen people. Wouldnt you think you need a Temple to cleanse your sins prior to the Messiah appearing. They do this out of their blindness to fail to see the provision God made by offering his Son, once for all sinners.”
Hebrews 10 does not do away with or discourage the sacrificial system. It discourages offerings without faith in Messiah.
“8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
The sacrifices were a commandment, but commandments are not to be followed out of simple habit, but should only be offered when the HEART is in proper condition, meaning that sacrifices are worthless when the person offering them is doing so merely to “obey the law” and without any thought for YHWH or His purposes for ordering the sacrifices in the first place. An unrepenetant sinner’s sacrifice is worthless. A sacrificial offering of thanks is worthless if the person making the party is not, in fact, thankful.
The sacrifices are an act of FAITH, and are a shadow of the Messiah. The blood of a ram or bull does not LITERALLY take away sin, but following the commandments in faith and out of love and respect for Messiah DOES LITERALLY take away sin. Hence, Hebrews says “4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.” That’s 100% true. The sacrifice does not take away sin, but the FAITH in doing so will take away sin. The blood of animals NEVER cleansed any sin, whatsoever. The blood of Messiah IS THE ONLY SACRIFICE that ever took away sin. Just as the sacrifices of Moses and Paul were acts of faith, so is sacrificing your own wisdom and trusting in Messiah, giving your life to him.
When the temple is rededicated, the sacrifices will be proper once again, as an act of faith and as a remembrance. But just like in the days of Moses and Paul after his conversion, the sacrifices during the millennial reign WILL NOT atone for sin, as they will be just a picture pointing to the one-time sacrifice of the Messiah (which actually did atone).
It is about trust in the Messiah.
Blessings.
Hello Dirk,
Thank you for a very well written and scholarly response. I will continue to disagree with assertions made that the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem is justified.
I understand scripture to teach us that Jesus is the temple of God. He said, “destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it”. The veil in the temple was rent (torn) as he died on the cross. The veil was his flesh as scripture teaches.
God’s temple is not found in the New Jerusalem because Jesus is there.
We likewise can be temples od God. Paul said, “do you not know that the spirit of God dwells in you, whose temple you are?”
This is my opinion. I admit I am not sure how the rebuilt temple comes completely into play.
Let’s make this very clear.
The same spirit behind Islamic Jihad, the same spirit that caused some ‘Christians’ to kill Jews in the past, the same spirit behind Antiochus Epiphanes that causes him to hate God’s temple in Jerusalem, and hate the temple service, that caused him to hate the Torah and forbid Jews to read it and circumcise their children, is the very same spirit behind replacement theology and the very same spirit that totally hates the fact Ezekiel’s temple will be built by Christ himself during the Millennium.
Thanks for your insightful and thought provoking article, Joel. Good job!
Here are a few of my thoughts.
I have always felt that a politician from the West (U.S.), a president, would be responsible for forging the signing of a Peace Treaty, Covenant, between the Arabs and the Jews. Could he be the AC? Only God knows. This Covenant will include allowing the Jewish people to build a “portion” of a Temple on the Temple Mount.
Currently, as you know, the Jews are not allowed to pray on the Temple Mount, and they even face danger simply by trying to walk on it. They are harassed and driven away! So, for the Jews to be able to build on the Temple Mount will be the miracle they’ve been praying for, and waiting for, thousands of years now. A joyous time of celebration is how they will look at it!
The Temple Institute is completely ready with everything needed to start building. The yeshiva’s are full of young students already being trained as priests, and who will conduct the Daily Sacrifices, etc..
There will be only a “portion” of a Temple built, however, and this is why the Apostle John wrote in Revelation 11:1-2 “I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the Temple of God and the Altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.”
The Gentiles spoken of here are located ON the Temple Mount already, the Al-Aqsa Mosque, who worship allah, and have taken over the “outer court!”
Since it will only be a “portion” of a Temple, this explains why it will be able to be built rather quickly. It will NOT be a full-scale Temple. The “full-scale” Temple will be built by the Lord Himself. He will build His Temple (the 4th Temple), as described in Ezekiel. And, I believe His Temple will be built in Shiloh.
After the 42 months, the middle of the seven years, the Abomination of Desolation, the AC, will forcefully, and with great indignation, set himself up upon the Throne that will be in the Holy of Holies, in the newly built “portion” of the Temple that the Jews have built … and declare “himself” to be god!!! This is when the Jewish people are going to “get it” that they have been duped!
All at once, sudden destruction is going to happen. Perhaps God, at that very moment, will cause the Great Earthquake that is going to bring devastation upon Jerusalem … and upon all the other nations that have come against her.
This is what the Lord said: Matthew 24:15-21 “So when you see the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by the Prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And, alas, for women who are pregnant, and for those who are nursing infants in that day, pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be!”
Thanks for your insight, Joel, and for getting all of us thinking! This is sooooo important these days.
Praying that you and your family are well. Blessings and happy new year, in Him, jd.
I would like to hear Joel’s and others thoughts on this.
What do you say about there being 3.5 years between the sacrifices ceasing and the abomination of desolation?
At least two things pointed me towards this.
1) The identity of the beast that kills the two witnesses.
It seems the Antichrist and the false prophet won’t be able to over power them, but several months before the return of Christ אֲבַדּוֹן (Apollyon), the fallen angel from the abyss, is released and kills the two witnesses. This also matches the beast of the earth who sounds like a Keruv angel, who marks all the 200 million Islamic army on the forehead before they invade Jerusalem together. This event is very close to the return of Christ.
2) Daniel 12:11 can be understood as:
From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away until the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be a 1290 days.
If the Jews are not allowed to sacrifice, but still allowed to pray in the temple, that would fit well with. Revelation 11:1-3 notice that it’s only for 42 months, not 43 months. If at the end of the 42 months the Keruv angel Apollyon comes and kills the two witnesses and then one month later the abomination of desolation is set up, that fits with the 1290 days (43 months).
I don’t claim to have everything worked out with this. I’m just looking at all the pieces and trying to see how they could potentially work out together. I’d be interested to hear people’s responses to this.
Shalom!
Dirk,
I agree with Christopher here. I can’t see how a Temple with animal sacrifies would or even could have any place in the New Covernant. Paul said that such things were now obsolete and were passing away. For those who believe that the Temple vision is to be taken literally – which I think is the source of this theological problem – do you also believe that the army in Ezekial 37 was an actual literal event, or one to take place? If not why is the temple taken literally but the army not?
DJ,
First, the “army” of Ezekiel 37 is not a military army but simply a massive group of people. While using poetic and symbolic imagery, it is indeed speaking of a literal nation of people being literally raised from the dead.
Second, while there are admittedly some unresolved difficulties with an ongoing sacrificial system in the millennium under Jesus, these are far, far, far less than the difficulties and outright absurdities of trying to interpret the thousands upon thousands of details in these nine chapters as mere allegory. The chapters are simply packed to overflowing with details such as measurements from one window to another, the number of windows, the length and number of stairs, and literally thousands of other things. Interpreting these things allegorical simply because one does not have all the answers is horrific hermeneutics. I would go so far as to say that it is bordering on outright gnosticism.
Third, while it is true that the Mosaic Covenant is becoming obsolete, if one actually considers the things spoken of in Ezekiel, there are clearly many changes, different from the Mosaic Law. So your argument that the Mosaic Law is obsolete is mute.
There is no problem with being thoroughly evangelical and acknowledging a forthcoming system of sacrifices. Some questions in this age may very well remain until Jesus the Messiah is here to explain them. But one can either submit to the clear meaning of the text, or take a position which is renders the inspired word of God as meaninglessness. While the Bible does indeed contain rich allegory, to take an actual floor-plan and interpret it as an ecclessiocentric allegory is unfortunately typical gentile arrogance. Such a subjective and speculative approach to interpretation is simply not tenable IMO. This is indeed the stuff that supersessionist and gnostic heresies are made of.
Hi everbuddy,
Back at the first reading of this article I had the same question many of you did. Why are sacrifices necessary? I have been giving this issue some thought.
Here is what I came up with.
1.)Man will inevitably do his own will rather than doing God’s will. (IE Abraham laying with Hagar,Jonah,etc…)
2.)We think we are doing God’s will but are doing our own thing.
3.)Believers in Christ understand that Christ made the ultimate sacrifice once for all.
4.)Our Jewish Brothers and Sisters for the most part don’t believe in Christ’s Atonement.
5.)Because our Jewish Brothers and Sisters for the time being reject Christ’s sacrifice, they believe that sacrifices are necessary.
I don’t know at what point in time our Jewish Brothers and Sisters will recognize Christ as their Messiah but up until that time, I believe they will do what THEY think God’s will is and build the temple and conduct sacrifices.
Does any of what I wrote make sense?
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.2 Corinthians 13:14
Shawn
DJ,
“I can’t see how a Temple with animal sacrifies would or even could have any place in the New Covernant. Paul said that such things were now obsolete and were passing away.”
Everything will EVENTUALLY pass away, on the 8th day. We’re talking about the other seven days, though. In the previous days, Abel, Noah, Moses, David, and Elijah offered sacrifices to YHWH out of faith. More recently, we had the Messiah and the apostles partaking in feasts that required sacrifices, and then we had the one true sacrifice, Yahshua. Thereafter, Paul and early church offered sacrifices, and then the proper place for sacrificing was destroyed, and animal sacrifices, as commanded, has been unavailable. Faith, however, was not destroyed, and the sacrificial system is about faith. What was destroyed was the means by which to enact the sacrifices. These sacrifices are only a picture of Messiah, and nothing more, a “do-this-in-remembrance-of-me.”
There is a temple coming,and it will clearly offer sacrifices. These sacrifices WILL NOT atone for sin, but every sacrifice will be a remembrance of the Messiah and a reminder of who he is and what he has done and continues to do for us.
Just as Paul and the early church kept sacrifices, so will we. It will not be an abomination, but a celebration of Messiah. That is the place of sacrifices in the 1,000 year kingdom that is rapidly approaching.
“For those who believe that the Temple vision is to be taken literally – which I think is the source of this theological problem – do you also believe that the army in Ezekial 37 was an actual literal event, or one to take place?”
Quite a blessing to say that this is a literal event.
“If not why is the temple taken literally but the army not?”
Both are actual occurrences.
Dirk,
Your making the same case in your above post on 1/13/15 for sacrifices to be a memorial just like did earlier in this discussion. However, Joel points out this may not be the case from this article below that is also being reposted for you.
Blessings!
https://joelstrumpet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Problem-of-Sacrifices-PDF.pdf
Shawn,
I completely agree. What you are referring to is a self fulfilling prophecy. You gave the best example in scripture which was Abraham and Sarah bringing forth Ishmael.
To some up what you are saying, “they will do what they see as God’s will, only to find that they are doing their own”.
The false doctrine of self fulfilling prophecy says, “God helps those who help themselves”.
Scripture refutes this claim….not by works, lest any man boast.
Good4U,
Dirk is a Torah keeper believing that Torah is forever. Obviously, the NT does not teach this. Th Torah is indeed passing away, though there is indeed a new Law of Messiah if you will that will be taught and established during the millennium.
“Dirk is a Torah keeper believing that Torah is forever.”
That’s not what I believe. I believe the Torah will expire on the 8th day.
Do you believe that it is presently becoming obsolete?
“Do you believe that it is presently becoming obsolete?”
I believe what Messiah said: “For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished (ginomai).”
Heaven and Earth have not disappeared, therefore the smallest letter and the least stoke of the pen of the Law have not disappeared.
On the 8th day, once the heavens and earth are gone:
Rev. 21 “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more”
The torah will expire and is prime to be replaced by YHWH.
Blessings.
Gotcha. Then yes, this is where evangelical believers would drastically disagree. The Torah has been fulfilled, and is thus becoming obsolete, as the writer to Hebrews says. I asked if you believed it is becoming obsolete, and you quoted a verse speaking of disappearing. I do not believe it has disappeared either, but that it is fulfilled in Messiah. This is precisely why there are changes to Torah in Ezekiel’s prophecy of the millennium chapter 40-48.
“This is precisely why there are changes to Torah in Ezekiel’s prophecy of the millennium chapter 40-48.”
What changes are you referring to?
Dirk,
The fact that there are radical differences between Ezekiel’s visions and the Mosaic Torah is a well discussed reality in most commentaries. The Jews were so perplexed by this matter that this portion of Ezekiel was almost in question as to its inclusion in the canon of Jewish Scripture.
I wish I had the time to lay it all out for you, but I simply do not. John McTernan has an article that covers some of the changes. I may not agree with every detail that he lists, but the gist is here in a fairly easy to read format:
http://www.defendproclaimthefaith.org/SitThroneOfDavid.html
It is beyond argument that both “jots and tittles” have not only already changed, but will in fact be radically changed yet more during the millennium. And then yet more after the millennium when no temple will exist.
Here is another article on this issue from a dispensationalist:
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/why-sacrifices-in-millennium
Dirk,
As you know, I do not allow this site to be a forum or platform for Judaizers which I consider you to be. But I didn’t expect you to accept the obvious and that which the various historical Jewish rabbis themselves have long acknowledged. Multiple issues such as a bullocks being sacrificed for passover cannot be reconciled with the Mosaic Law.
Yet you said:
With all due respect, this is not the case:
One bull is sacrificed, not after passover, but on the first day of the passover. (The fourteenth day of the first month).
Show me any verse anywhere in Torah which commands a bull be sacrificed on the first day of Passover. None exists. Yet you say this is not a change?
Notice also that in Ezekiel, there is no mention of a passover lamb on the first day. Why? Because the lamb has already been slain. It has been fulfilled. What is in Ezekiel simply cannot be reconciled with the Mosaic Law.
Then after the fourteenth day, from the fifteenth day to the twenty-second day, Ezekiel speaks of seven bulls, seven rams, and one male goat being sacrificed. Numbers 28, on the other hand, which you cite, has something very different: From the fifteenth day to the twenty-second day, they sacrifice two young bulls, one ram, and seven male lambs. Big difference. But I do not expect you to admit this.
The notion that Ezekiel would describe virtually every detail of the Temple down to how many cubits each stair is and which direction it faces, yet would brazenly leave out such significant parts of the Temple is simply not an acceptable solution.
Finally the ark is not a throne. The ark is an ark. Efforts to say silly things like, “well, the Lord is enthroned between the cherubim,” are merely desperate efforts to indicate otherwise.
Joel says:
December 29, 2014 at 11:09 pm
Jay,
If the Bible says “evenings and mornings,” it would be rather irresponsible, in my opinion, to read it as speaking of years.
I agree with you Joel on your comment I believe that it is likely 2300 days – but one thing worth considering is that the evenings and mornings was on each creation day and as we also know that the six days of creation also are looked at as 6000 years of earth history until the 1000 years of sabbath rest – looking at this as one day can be a 1000 years in Gods time than there may be a picture here – I am not saying that it is with certainty but just observing is that 2300 – 1967 and the reclaiming of Temple mount puts us at 332 BC the years Alexander took control of Jerusalem and from 332 BC (zero year removed) to 1967 the Jews never had control over their temple site as far as I understand it
Willard,
We have previously discussed this on another site and it is not “proper” to bring that disagreement to Joel’s blog as you have done.
I was content to leave Joel’s response for what it was and accepted his views as being his present view.
In your post, you agree with Joel’s statement, yet you suggest that the 2,300 day could also be considered to be years because of the co-incidence that, from 332 BC to 1967 AD, there is a span according to your calculation, where you account for the year “Zero” by adding a year from the total to end up with a time span of 2,300 years, when in fact there is precisely only 2,299 years between the dates that you quote. This was one of the points that I had made on the other site.
Also I had questioned your understanding of what the end points were for the 2,300 years time span, with respect to the Daniel 8 prophecy, are, when considering the starting point for the trampling of the sanctuary. It certainly did not start with Alexandra the Great as you have suggested. Also when does the prosperity of the little horn spoken about in this prophecy end? 1967 did not see the end of the prosperity for the little horn in this prophecy, it is still continuing even as I write this post and it will end in our near future when the little horn is judged by God.
Willard, you want it both ways, you want it to be “days” by agreeing with Joel, yet you put forward your theory which is based on the 2,300 days as being years. It is either one or the other, not both as you posted
It is my view that Joel is still working through his understanding of what this Daniel 8 prophecy concerning the “2,300 evening and mornings,” mean.
We will have to await his deliberation on this matter and read his book when he publishes it, as his view at present may still be very fluid until it is set in concrete, so to speak, when he publishes his book. Even then, I am sure that Joel, just like myself is humble enough to admit if we have each made a mistake in our respective ponderings on this issue.
Shalom
Jay
Willard, I think it is taking too much liberty with the text to suggest that “we also know that the six days of creation also are looked at as 6000 years of earth history until the 1000 years of Sabbath rest.” Many people throughout church history have seen a parallel between the six days of creation with a rest and a 6000 year history with a millennial rest, but this is a very different thing than suggesting that the six days of creation are the 6000 year history of the earth. The six days precedes the 6000 years, or possibly is the first six days *of* the 6000 years. Perhaps I have misunderstood you.
Regardless, even if one wants to use the whole “day is as a thousand years” interpretation, that would translate to 2300 x 1000 = 2,300,000 years (2.3 million years); not 2300 years. There really is not an appropriate hermeneutic for transforming 2300 “evenings and mornings” into 2300 years.
Along the lines of the sacrifice in the millennial reign, it is really unassailable that there will be a temple, built by the Messiah, who not only will present sacrifice FOR HIMSELF, but also will provide the animals for sacrificing for others, and that the context of this is *after* His return. I suppose we can debate whether those believers who have been glorified will need to have such sacrifices, but the glorified Messiah will be offering them for Himself, so I am not sure how that gets interpreted.
The point of much of Paul’s commentary in the epistles regarding the Law is that it never actually was what the Pharisees had made it out to be. It was never–even in the OT, according to Paul–the means by which people were justified before God. The sacrifices were always reminders to the people, and what atonement they provided–for God makes it clear that they did atone–was not ultimate atonement, but was atonement for remaining in the land. The sacrifices never removed sin, and when those sacrifices were done without faith, they accomplished absolutely nothing.
Jesus’ atoning sacrifice provides believers with ultimate atonement–atonement that grants them access to the age to come. In this age, the sacrifices are means of remembrance, just as many of the rest of the commands in the Torah were for the purpose of causing the people to remember. No one will be justified by observing the Law, but the Law leads us to Messiah.
Much of the rest of the Law that most Gentiles have a problem with are means by which God sets Israel apart from the rest of the nations. This provides a fork in the road for us in our theology, I believe. Either 1) if we believe that the predominantly Gentile church has somehow taken over Israel’s role as established in the Law, then it is incumbent upon the church to take over Israel’s responsibility to be set apart from the nations as established in the Law. Or 2) if we will recognize that Israel has a role, even within the body of believer’s, that defers from the role of Gentiles, then we can rightly determine that we are not being set apart in the same way they are and that we perform a different function within God’s plan and that God does still ask of Israel things He may not ask of us.
In fact, I think #2 is evident from Paul’s exposition in Roman’s where he speaks of his ministry to the Gentiles that he might make some in Israel jealous so they may repent. Paul is speaking of Deuteronomy 32 where God notifies the Israelites that He will one day accept “foolish Gentiles” in order to make Israel jealous in the way that they made Him jealous with foreign gods. We are not called to be Israel, nor to replace Israel, but be a red flag to Israel that says, “You’re still not understanding your God rightly, therefore return to your Law and repent.”
I’m unconvinced on the issue of whether 2300 evenings and mornings is 2300 total or 1150 total.
Aggregate interpretation reads “… and there was (2300) evening(s) and there was (2300) morning(s), a day (2300).”
Separate unit interpretation reads: “… and there was (1150) evening(s) plus (1150) mornings, a day (1150).”
Both seem problematic, but for the exact same reason:
The separate unit interpretation seems to eschew the frequently used scriptural calculation that a day and an evening are mentioned separately:
“Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, ”
“Then Moses entered the cloud as he went on up the mountain. And he stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights.”
“17 Now the Lord provided a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.”
“After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.””
” For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”
There’s a stark difference between saying 2300 days and evenings = 1150 days, and saying 3 days and 3 nights = 3 total.
Technically, the “2300 verses” read “2300 dusks and dawns” as opposed to “2300 evenings and 2300 mornings”.
The format is thus “X dusks and dawns.” That’s unlike the above mentioned scriptures, whose format is “X days AND X nights” and that’s why I haven’t discounted 1150 total as a possibility, but, no matter which amount of time is truly being referred to, the book of Daniel method of describing time is anomalous compared to the usual scriptural description of reckoning evenings and mornings.
I have a feeling that what COULD be going on is that the 2300 evenings and mornings are NOT days and are NOT nights. I think they are sacrifices or the allotted times for sacrifices.
Ask yourself: why does the saint/angel use the term “evenings” and “mornings” instead of “days” and “nights”? The words actually used are “ereb” (meaning “dusk”) and “boker” (dawn). A morning is NOT a day, but a part of a day. Dusk is NOT an evening, but part of an evening.
Ask yourself: what is the context of the 2300 dusks and dawns? The context is the temple and the daily sacrifices: ““How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?” 14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.””
When do the daily sacrifices occur?
Exodus 29: “38 “This is what you are to offer on the altar regularly each day: two lambs a year old. 39 Offer one in the morning (boker) and the other at twilight (ereb). ”
This would explain why the 2300 are not mentioned as “X days and X nights” and don’t follow the typical reckoning of days and nights as used with the above-quoted verses… BECAUSE THE MESSENGER ISN’T TALKING ABOUT DAYS AND NIGHTS. He is talking about sacrifices, which don’t have to follow an aggregate system OR a separate unit system. Sacrifices are not measurements of time (though you can do so, but that is both incidental and potentially unreliable). Thus, 2300 evenings and mornings would simply be 2300 sacrifices…
… but would that be 2300 evening sacrifices and 2300 morning sacrifices, or 2300 total sacrifices? The problem remains.
The 2,300 evening-mornings are 2,300 nights (specifically Passover nights celebrated from evening until morning). The length of the vision is thus a time period that contains 2,300 Passovers. The vision begins when the ram came against the he-goat, or in real terms when Alexander the Great of Greece attacked Darius III of Persia at the Granicus River in 334 BCE. Counting 2,300 Passovers after that battle takes you to Passover in 1967, after which the sanctuary (Temple Mount) mentioned in verse 14 was restored to the Jews. It’s an amazing fulfillment of prophecy, and it opens the way to understanding all of the chrono-specific prophecies in the Book of Daniel, chapters 4 and 7-12. If you are interested, you can read more about it at my website, http://www.prophecysociety.org
I clicked on the article to read about the 2300 days but got caught up in the comments debate about Ezekiel’s temple. The apparent reinstallment of the sacrificial system has always bothered me because this negates everything we believe Christianity is about, that Christ died once for all, the all atoning sacrifice, no more necessity for the blood of bulls and goats that could not cleanse us anyhow. In that respect I’m inclined to agree with those who think the temple may be allegorical, referring to something spiritual. The descriptions of the river that runs are surely spiritual as noted by another commenter. However as Joel has pointed out the description is so detailed, so specific. I googled it and you’re able to get detailed 3d images and animations of this temple online, that’s how specific the description is. I’m no bible scholar, most of my knowledge is from people like Joel (God bless you!) writing books targeted to the general population, but from what I understand the only feast we shall be celebrating during the millennial reign is the feast of tabernacles. Maybe that’s what all the sacrifices are for, who knows. As to why Paul continued to offer sacrifices, I’ve thought sometimes that he could have been in error. Is this blasphemy?? After all isn’t this the trip which he was so much warned against by the Holy Spirit and he stubbornly insisted and ended up incarcerated for life (as far as I know). Not that the incarceration was punishment for this, but God apparently was not the one who had required any sacrifices or vows from him. He was perhaps operating out of habit, having not yet fully internalized what the new covenant meant. In fact when you read the passage it sounds like they were doing this to pacify the Jews in Jerusalem. I wonder which letters he wrote before and after imprisonment? Maybe a letter like Hebrews showing a greater understanding of the new covenant may have come about after his imprisonment?
Most commentators say that the 1335 and 1290 days are counted back from Christs return. If that is the case the temple would be restored 965 days after Christ returns.
The culmination of endtimes events includes the battle of Armageddon. One thing that we do know is that a large army of the A/C will be defeated there and an ensuing supper will be gorged upon by the fowls of earth and dead men’s bones will be scattered far and wide. Ezekiel says that the children of Israel will be gathering up bones for 7 months afterwards to cleanse the land. I think that it is reasonable to assume that the future temple site will also need to be cleansed. 7 months (lunar since israel will now have be restored) equals 207 +/- 1 days. Subtract this from the 2300 evenings and mornings and end up with approximately 943 or 2093 days before the time of Armageddon. This would be the start time for the 2300 e/m that the sanctuary and/or host to be unclean. 943 days would mean that it “starts” in the last 3.5 years whereas 2093 would indicate to be during the first 3.5 years. Either way it would not be at the time of the start of the great trib, which is at the midpoint of the final 7 years. Since I believe the 2300 to be 1150 days, I would say that the 1150 days has a connection to the mark of the beast rather than the AOD. This would be hard to accept unless you can see that the AoD is not something placed within the temple but is rather the temple itself, thereby in itself not being a defilement of the temple.
DDR^2
Hello Joel!
I am not one who believes that the 2300 evenings and mornings refer to the time of 7 year covenant with the Antichrist, because it is a time when sacrifices are made to purify the temple and do not see the Israeli people to start making sacrifices precisely at a time when the Antichrist has broken the covenant with them.
I would also say that I have never accepted that there would be construction of a temple before the millennium. I do not think yet, because I have not done a study on the subject, but I must confess that this does not put the share, because some studies that today I was pleased to see.
There is something that makes sense in all this, if not, see:
1. Christ did not die for all, died for his sheep (John 10: 11,26)
2. The sheep are those who were chosen by God before they were born (Rom. 8: 29,30)
3. The sheep were not born by the will, but of God (John 1:13)
4. Only the sheep will be purified with coming of the Savior (Rom. 11: 26,27)
5. Only the sheep will rise to meet Christ in the air (Matt. 25: 31-34)
If we make an analysis in the trial of Matthew 25: 31-46, we find that people will be divided into three groups:
1st Group: Goats (Children of Satan; The weeds)
2nd Group: The Sheep (The chosen; God’s children; wheat)
3rd Group: The little ones (Children born by the will of man)
The Bible reveals that in me the beast coming of Christ, the false prophet and the weeds die (Rev. 19: 20,21). Now about the little ones never done a study. Probably the presence of a temple necessary to purify the sons of men, since they were not purified by the death of Christ, and when God dwell among men, after the millennium, everyone has to be purified, because our God is Holy.
Note: Thanks for the studies. I wish I could read your book “beast east medio”, but unfortunately here in Angola (Africa) there is no way to find this book.
Hi brother Joel, thank you is for this article and your ministry. Your interpretation of Daniel 8 is extremely fascinating I have one question involving the one great horn is broken and then it splits into four pieces how is this interpreted as being fulfilled in the last days?
Hi Seth,
Obviously, to a degree, it remains to be seen. After the Western (goat) response, whether this be Turkey or some coalition of nations, after they are victorious throughout the region, the prominent leader of tis successful campaign would be broken off and the former coalition, or new dominion is broken up into four.
It would appear that it is relatively simple to eliminate the 1150-days interpretation of Daniel 8:14 with the evidence of Daniel 12:11. The time from the removal of the daily through the set up of the abomination that makes desolate on to the full end of this pollution of the sanctuary is 1290-days, which by no means could possibly fit inside 1150-days; hence, exposing the 1150-days view to be a poorly thought out interpretation of Daniel 8:14. Additionally, antiochus did not pollute the sanctuary for 1290-days either, so the idea that this prophecy is fulfilled in Antiochus simply misses on all relevant time-based factors provided by Daniel 8:14 and 12:11. Seeing that the 1290-days fits inside the 2300-days broader context of Daniel 8:14, this would seem to further suggest that 2300-days is the intended interpretation that does not conflict with Daniel 12:11.
The answer to this 2300 days or sacrificial offerings lies in number set theory. The 2300/1150 day prophecy is a subset of two bigger sets. It says on verse 13: …to give BOTH the SANCTUARY and the HOST to be trodden under foot. Because we have separate prophecies for each we can solve this mystery. Rev. 11 says that Jerusalem shall be trodden down for 42 months and Dan 7 et al says that thy people shall be given into his hand for time times and half a time[3.5 years]. Tho neither of these prophecies specifically mentions the transgression of desolation relative to the sanctuary, they set limits on a maximum time length. Since 2300 DAYS would be longer than 42 months or T,T,halfT, 2300 evenings and mornings must refer to 1150 days that fits within one of the bigger SETS .
Blessings
Phil
I believe that the Aleph (thousand) in Daniel 8:14 was not a plural Aleph in the original manuscript written by Daniel. Somehow, through either the scribes or recopies made of Daniel manuscripts, it was changed to a dual Aleph. The purpose of the counting of days is the cleansing of the temple after is was desecrated by the Antichrist. It doesn’t take 1040 days (2,300 – 1,260 = 1,040 days) to cleanse the temple. It only takes 40 days (1,300 – 1,260 = 40 days).
Daniel 8:14 is clearly a time counted starting with the day of the Abomination of Desolation; counting out 1,300 days from that point. With Christ arriving on the 1,260th day after the Abomination of Desolation, 40 days later the temple is cleansed. 35 days later the temple is rededicated on Kislev 25. You cannot rededicate the temple before the cleansing…it has to be cleansed first…just as they did during the Maccabean cleansing and re-dedication of the Feast of Dedication.
The Feast of Dedication (Hanukkah) was not to be a Feast of the Lord to be celebrated annually, according to the Laws of Moses. But because John has acknowledged it within his Gospel, it must be assumed to be significant. “This eight-day festival beginning on the 25th of Kislev (November-December) commemorates the re-dedication of the temple in 164 B.C. by Judas Maccabeus.” The Feast of Dedication (Hanukkah) does have prophetic significance. In Daniel 12, one can read of prophetic time sequences pertaining to the last days.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (Daniel 12:11 KJV)
If the Abomination of Desolation is in the midst of the 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:27), then the timeframe that the Lord gives in verse 11 has an additional 30 days added to it; 1,290 days -1,260 days =30 days. Certain date setters will attempt to call these days as years. That is really twisting Scripture, since God has not given any inclination of this being years. Usually the Lord uses timeframes of years in conjunction with the Sabbatical years as He did with the Seventy Weeks Prophecy. If He had meant years for the 1,26o days, He would have called it 180 weeks of years. Daniel has used the Hebrew word yowm, which is consistently used in prophecy and Scripture to mean a 24 hour period.
The thirty day difference is the timeframe between the time that Lord returns and the length of time that He will take to refurbish the earth, restore Jerusalem and gather His people. For the most part, the Lord will be setting up the earth for His Millennial Kingdom.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (Daniel 12:12 KJV)
The Feast of Atonement will be the start of the Seventieth Week of Daniel, as well as the day of Jesus Christ’s return 2,520 days later (360 x 7 years). This will be 1,260 days after the “Abomination of Desolation” (Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15-16). The Feast of Atonement is celebrated every year on Tishri 10. The Feast of Tabernacles is five days later between Tishri 15-22. Exactly 75 days after the Feast of Atonement is the first day of Hanukkah (Feast of Dedication), which is Kislev 25 (1,260 days +75 days=1,335 days). It can be that the official re-dedication of the Millennial Kingdom’s temple will be on Kislev 25.
Thank you for this article and for your work made available. Could you comment on why Ironside used 171BC in “400 Silent Years” as the beginning date of Antiochus’ abomination and where he got his information to make that determination? Was it Josephus or some other source? Wilmington’s Guide to the Bible also uses the 171 BC date as the start date of the abomination. Thanks again for your work.
You stated:
“Ultimately, the inability of either number, 1,150 or 2,300, to align with the period of Antiochus’ persecution leads us to conclude that this portion of the vision is not ultimately pointing to Antiochus’ historical persecution of the Jewish people, but instead, it must apply to the Antichrist, and is yet to be fulfilled in the future. But we are still left with the question as to which number is correct, a full 2,300 days or half that time, pointing to 1,150 days.”
However, 2,300 evenings and mornings can actually be 1,150 days. According to numbers 28, the daily offering is 2 lambs offered day by day: 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening. Thus 2,300 evenings and morning lamb offerings would occur over a period of 1,150 days.
According to 1 Maccabees, from the time that Antiochus set up the abomination of desolation (15th of kislev) until the temple was re dedicated (25th of kislev) was 3 years and 10 days.
The Hebrew calendar is based on the metonic cycle (cycle repeats every 19 years), which means on years 3,6,8,11,14,17,19 there is an extra 30 days (13 months instead 12 months). IF Antiochus Epiphanes had the Abomination set up on the alter in either the 6th year or the 17th year of the metonic cycle, then there would be an additional 2 leap months over a 3 year period. So, if there were 2 extra leap months (60 extra days) in addition to the 36 months (3 years), that would bring us to a total of 1140 days (30 days x36 months plus 30 days x 2 leap months). Then just add the 10 days and you arrive at 1,150 days.
Thus from the time that Antiochus Epiphanes set up the abomination of desolation on the alter until the temple was re-dedicated was 3 years and 10 days, which equals 1,150 days, which equals 2,300 evening and morning lamb sacrifices.
Interesting, though there are simply too many “ifs” for this to be a viable option. Besides the timing of a terminus ad quem is simply not an option. The angel Gabriel specifically says the vision pertains to the time of the end and the final period of indignation. This might be an option if one rejected the inspiration of the book entirely, but even a believing preterist would have a difficult time defending this view.
Hi Joel
Firstly thank you for all your work and shedding new light on prophetic scripture. I am a student of much of your material and have just purchased Mid East Beast which I am very much looking forward to reading.
A few thoughts on this subject, pertaining to the 2300 days which I initially found perplexing and hard to understand in its timing and relation to other time stamps in Daniel.
I could be way off the mark here, but while I was considering the possibilities and crunching the numbers, something occurred to me.
Lets just step back and make an assumption here…..I did initially agree with the definition that 2300 mornings and evenings referred to a literal 2300 days. What if we gave the theory that it actually means 1150 days, and in referencing mornings and evenings, actually meant 2300 sacrifices (2 a day, one morning, one evening).
If we take the abolishment of sacrifice at the mid point of the Tribulation, and apply the 1150 days, we fall short of the end point of the last 3.5 years by 110 days.
In Matthew 24:22 Jesus said “If those days had not been cut short, no flesh would be saved, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened”
Is it possible that the end point of the Great Tribulation will be cut short as Jesus said, and if it were by 110 days then the above would make perfect sense. Im mindful of manipulating numbers and verses to conveniently shoehorn things, but I found this possibility intriguing.
I also wondered about the significance of the number 110, if that were to be the number of days the Great Tribulation were shortened by and found Psalm 110
The LORD said to my Lord:
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”
2The LORD will extend Your mighty scepter from Zion:
“Rule in the midst of your enemies.”
3Your people shall be willing
on Your day of battle.
Arrayed in holy splendor, from the womb of the dawn,
to You belongs the dew of Your youth.
4The LORD has sworn
and will not change His mind:
“You are a priest forever
in the order of Melchizedek.”
5The Lord is at Your right hand;
He will crush kings in the day of His wrath.
6He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead;
He will crush the leaders far and wide.
7He will drink from the brook by the road;
therefore He will lift up His head.
Food for thought and Id love to hear your thoughts on this Joel
Blessings and keep up your wonderful ministry
James
Great website – I also have wondered about the sacrifices in Ezekiel. What a fearful and exciting thing, to see Revelation and Daniel unfolding.
I remember finding an explanation for the Zechariah prophecy of Judas’ fee. Some copyist had added Jeremiah to the text in Matthew and created years of confusion by being “helpful”. “They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter’s field, as the Lord commanded me.”
Sometimes those small copyist errors can cause big problems.
CHARLES R. SABO
Posted at 01:19h, 24 May
I believe that the Aleph (thousand) in Daniel 8:14 was not a plural Aleph in the original manuscript written by Daniel. Somehow, through either the scribes or recopies made of Daniel manuscripts, it was changed to a dual Aleph. The purpose of the counting of days is the cleansing of the temple after is was desecrated by the Antichrist. It doesn’t take 1040 days (2,300 – 1,260 = 1,040 days) to cleanse the temple. It only takes 40 days (1,300 – 1,260 = 40 days).
The above sounds logical. Maybe you could comment on it, Joel, and some of the other interpretations/speculations by Charles.