John Kerry’s plan for Jerusalem

Aaaron Klein’s article today at WND has some very interesting features.

The following line certainly caught my attention:

The exact composition of the international mandate is up for discussion, the sources said, but Kerry’s plan recommended a coalition that includes the Vatican, together with a group of Muslim countries such as Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Imagine if the Vatican and Turkey shared control over the Temple Mount. On a humorous note, those who believe the Antichrist will be a Pope, and those who think the AC will come from Turkey would both have a field day and a heck of a debate on the various prophecy online forums and prophecy blogs. Nevertheless, I’ll believe it all when I see it. These things tend to have a way of falling apart at the drop of a hat.

37 Comments
  • Vernon
    Posted at 13:26h, 16 December

    I am far from a biblical scholar, but this proposal doesn’t appear to fit a biblical mould. But it does fit nicely into the European Antichrist model, similar to a recent WND report, citing Russia’s growing influence in the Middle East. This will also set prophecy websites ablaze showing further proof that indeed Russia leads an Arab confederacy against Israel. As you said Joel, I will believe it all when I see it.

  • Gene
    Posted at 18:15h, 16 December

    How about the AC from Turkey and the False Prophet from the Vatican?
    Interesting.

  • David W. Lincoln
    Posted at 18:54h, 16 December

    I recall one of Tom Clancy’s novels, “The Sum of all fears”, and it had Jack Ryan with Scott Adler coming up with a plan that satisfies some, but angers others.

    Changing gears, Joel, I see this news story as being indicative that Iran is not as strong as it would have us believe.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/iran-cancels-pakistan-gas-pipeline-loan/story-e6frfkur-1226783311322

  • Gene
    Posted at 22:00h, 16 December

    I was going to wait until next fall to mention this, but I’m going ahead and bring it up now.

    According to Rev. 6:12, after the 6th seal is broken, an earthquake occurs before a solar eclipse and a lunar eclipse. If these eclipses are the ones that will occur in 2015, shouldn’t we be watching for a major earthquake to happening right before that time?
    It would really be significant, especially if it occurs on a feast day of Our Lord, now that would definitely get my attention. Maybe this is something we should also be looking for. I hope this information will get around. The more witnesses the better.

    Maybe you might want to comment about this, if you believe there is anything to it or not.

    Thank you Brother for keeping us informed about current events,it is truly a great blessing for us all!

    Your Brother in Our Blessed Savior, Christ Yeshua.
    Gene W.

  • David Roberts
    Posted at 01:09h, 17 December

    That’s so interesting considering the Mahdi is supposed to make a covenant with Rome and Israel.

  • Elizabeth
    Posted at 04:04h, 17 December

    Does anyone else find it somewhat fascinating that the rhetoric, as well as recent historical events (forming of the EU, election of more liberal Pope), seems to strongly support the opposing mainstream paradigm, causing most people to look in the wrong direction. It makes me wonder if it is God’s will to conceal the matter until it is occurring? Does He want it hidden from most people?

    Before becoming informed on the OT prophets and the “Day of the Lord”, I would also wonder how the global and specific end time prophecies of Revelation could be fulfilled without it being obvious to each and every person on the planet. Now I see that it could very easily happen in relative obscurity – under most people’s radar. I guess a person has to be “open to it” in order to see it…

  • Yochanan
    Posted at 09:23h, 17 December

    Hi Joel, David, Vernon, Gene,

    The Dajjal in the minds of many Muslims, seems to be; NWO, Iluminati, Bankers, Freemasons, Evolutionists, Materialists, British Royalty and the Pope, in fact the West as a whole! Their version of an ‘antimessiah’ is often seen as the same as how many believers see him(and his system). I think the only deal made with the Pope by Muslims will be for stealth power gains. The scriptures about the last empire before The Restoration, in my mind, focus on the Islamic Uma. But no doubt their alliance with socialism/revolution will/is useful to help fulfil their ‘job’.

    It was strange, when I had my eyes opened to Islam’s role, after 23 years of faithfully fearing NWO, Iluminati, and all the others listed above. The love of The Father was finally able to come close to me regarding the dark time before the dawn. For, The Father can not deliver us from a fear of something non-existant. Instead we must see through it, like seeing through a mask, for what it is; A Lie. Then we can be helped. Now I face a real danger I feel a resonance to my prayers for help. May we be engaged until no more work can be done.

    I recommend “some thoughts on martydom” video.

    Blessings
    Yochanan

  • Vernon
    Posted at 11:19h, 17 December

    Wow! That is a really good point Yochanan! I too have studied the NWO for a number of years, before realizing I was burrowing deeper down the rabbit hole. I believe that Satan himself is behind the various revelations being publicized about the striking similarities we find in the Rome antichrist model and biblical prophecy. It has everyone looking the wrong way. I found it odd after all these years that both Christian and non-Christian writers shared a significant amount of the same information relating to a global leader who will emerge to take over the entire world. The Christian writers simply added scripture to the mix to legitimize their ideology, which formed bad theology, whereas the non-Christians did not use scripture; yet in any book one can find on the NWO, authored either by a Christian or non-Christian, you will certainly find numerous references to the Illuminati, Freemasons, Bilderbergs and even the Catholic Church with its pagan brand mix of Christianity. How it is that both sides seem to know the endgame so well and agree with each other on certain issues, using the same information, was never a consideration for me until recently.

  • Joel
    Posted at 12:31h, 17 December

    For any readers who wish to understand much of what is driving the “prophecy” movement today, I highly recommend a book titled, A Culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic Visions in Contemporary America Its a secular work, but one which I largely agree with.

  • Robert Macniel
    Posted at 13:00h, 17 December

    I wholeheartedly agree with Gene’s comment. And I think the Antichrist is the Imam Mahdi and the false prophet is the Islamic Jesus, that according to the Muslims will come to convince the Christians to serve the imam and to become Muslim. Now imagine Christians being convinced that Christ has returned. Wouldn’t they want him to become pope?

  • Vernon
    Posted at 13:05h, 17 December

    Thanks Joel.

    I just ordered it!

  • Joel
    Posted at 14:06h, 17 December

    I think it is important that we hold our speculations, expectations and “prophetic imaginations” loosely in terms of what will be. Of course, any of these things are possible, (as I suggested in my first book) but I am also convinced that what will come, with the lying signs and wonders, the fall of Satan to earth, and the great delusion, it will involve far more than most of us imagine at this point. We can all share what we think it will look like, but we must not become dogmatic, remaining charitable toward those whose vision is different, and above all humble.

    Blessings

  • Matthew
    Posted at 16:19h, 17 December

    Joel I appreciate your work a lot. But I do have a concern; I don’t believe that Islam fills the whole picture concerning the anti-Christ, because then the western world would be mostly excluded and the ‘Mark of the beast’ would make no sense to me. I recently enjoyed two discussions between pro and pre (trib) advocates very much. One discussion was between Tim LaHaye and Irvin Baxter (joined by Rick Joyner) the other between Irvin Baxter and Perry Stone. (both TBN 2011) I really would like to see a discussion between you and Irvin Baxter (endtime.com) The result could be a far clearer picture than we have at the moment.
    Irvin Baxter (post trib) acknowledges the extreme important role of Islam. (The forth horse in the seals) but he also beliefs there is a firm connection to Rome (The false prophet) and the NWO.

    The discussions:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec6EkPXEj20

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6jv_Qz6FWo

    Bless all of you.

  • good4u
    Posted at 17:36h, 17 December

    Amen, Joel!

    We, as prophecy students, DO NOT have it yet all figured out…though with the Islamic paradigm we are getting closer. Let us be open to the guiding of the Holy Spirit to be open and flexible where we are uncertain and allow God’s prophetic word to reveal the corrections in our understanding to be teachable so that we can stand in the day of testing! There is nothing worse before a skeptical public than to proclaim something as absolute truth and then events prove those claims in error…the LORD is NOT pleased and it reconfirms skepticism in the public and makes them even harder to reach with the gospel of Christ.

  • Joel
    Posted at 19:21h, 17 December

    Matthew,

    I was on the Irvin Baxter show a few years ago. You may be able to find it somewhere. We had a really nice conversation.

  • Matthew
    Posted at 21:10h, 17 December

    Thanks Joel,

    can not find it. But, are there ‘serious’ differences between his and your views? Anyway keep working together! There is already too much individualism going on within the prophetic study scene, which makes me too cautious to do any serious teachings on eschatalogy and only breeds uncertainty in the body of Christ.

    Anything going on with Perry Stone?

    PS,

    As an elder I limit myself in continuously pressing people on their hearts to live a holy live and to be prepared to suffer persecution.

  • Joel
    Posted at 22:14h, 17 December

    I’m not sure what Baxter believes in terms of eschatology. But he was a really nice guy and a pleasure to talk to. I’d be happy to do anything with him again.

  • good4u
    Posted at 00:53h, 18 December

    Elder Matthew,

    I’m glad to see an Elder in a church body finally taking notice of the prophetic word becoming comprehendible and unsealing to other believers besides those of us who consider ourselves “prophecy geeks” me included. The Islamic paradigm Joel and a few others who initially spear headed this understanding in prophetic interpretation is not to be underestimated. Just because everything is not fully understood yet at this point should not be a reason to keep other believers from knowing what we do know. Remember, if ALL the prophetic word were fully understood…we would be in Daniel’s 70th week! Ummm…just a tad to late to prepare and be caught sleeping! Well,…not on my watch if I were an Elder! For to be forewarned is to be forearmed!

    I would start to study what I do know, ask the LORD for his wisdom and guidance, admit all the answers are not yet known for it is a work in progress and TEACH what I know regarding the Islamic paradigm. The time to start is NOW for waiting could be the kiss of death…literally. I am attempting to keep my own pastor and Bible teacher/Elder informed of what I know, even if I am ignored for the most part now because one day in the not to distant future, I will have them asking me about what I know so they can prepare our own congregation.

    Blessings!

  • David W. Lincoln
    Posted at 01:14h, 18 December

    The Two witnesses that are referred to in Revelations 11 have their work cut out, and partially because of http://facingislam.blogspot.ca/2013/12/new-poll-of-muslim-countries-finds.html#more

  • Bergmeid
    Posted at 01:59h, 18 December

    So why then did we just close the Vatican embassy? This makes no sense.

  • Vernon
    Posted at 11:21h, 18 December

    Amen Good4u. That was well stated. I am soon to approach my Pastor on this issue. The Rome paradigm is considered “sound doctrine” in the churches here in Bermuda. But there is a small awareness breaking out that comparatively, something simply isn’t right with that teaching and current world events. All eyes are on the Middle East in terms of prophetic significance. I am still studying the Islamic model and the more I study, the more things start to make sense. I have shared bits and pieces with certain believers who received it well, but I am anticipating stiff opposition as I move forward. Much prayer and wisdom is needed for all of us in the weeks and months ahead.

  • Joel
    Posted at 12:19h, 18 December

    Vernon,

    I have spoken in Barbados. This included speaking at a few churches, before the largest church on the Island, on the main television station, and on the largest radio station. It was very well received there.

  • Vernon
    Posted at 12:39h, 18 December

    Thanks Joel,

    That is very encouraging to know. Hopefully it will be just as well received here in Bermuda. I am developing a website which will cater to these issues. I would love to link your blog if I may…

  • Joel
    Posted at 12:54h, 18 December

    For sure.

  • Matthew
    Posted at 13:12h, 18 December

    @good4u,

    thanks, anyway everybody in our congregation knows we are in the last days and does acknowledge the vital role of Islam. I can’t convince everybody about the posttrib rapture including my pastor! My problem is the role of Europa, it would be wonderful to have specific revelation about that area. I do feel that Europa and the western world as a whole is too much excluded in the views of Joel and Walid, in that area I am more focussed on Irvin Baxter.

  • Vernon
    Posted at 13:22h, 18 December

    Thank You Joel. May the Lord continue to Bless you for the tremendous work you are doing for his glory.

  • Vernon
    Posted at 14:55h, 18 December

    @ Matthew,

    I see your point on this matter. It does appear that Rome is isolated prophetically from the Islamic view of the end times. I also suspect that Rome will play some role in future events, but as Joel rightly pointed out in a previous post comment, there are twists and turns in the grand scheme of things which we will not see coming. Having said that, I will state cautiously that in the absence of significant mention of Europe in the writings of the Prophets, its involvement in end time events will probably not be as grand as the European Antichrist model dictates. We will have to wait and see where those twists and turns involve Europe to know for sure.

    Blessings,

    Vernon

  • FX
    Posted at 15:15h, 18 December

    Bonjour Yochana & Vernon,

    You both mention what I like to call the Illuminati & “tutti quanti” end of time scenario. I would be curious to know how you came out of this deception from the enemy to embrace the truth about the Islam paradigm.

    Any comments to share?

    In France, a lot of Messianic believers believe with all their heart that the “bad guys” are the minority operating behind the scene (the illuminati & “tutti quanti”). According to them, they are using Islam for a goal (see Albert Pyke and the next 3rd world war) after which they will get rid of it. It is then and only then, the “real” antichrist/beast will come on the scene and subjugate the whole world…Now you’re talking about deception BIG TIME, even the very elect (ieMatthiew 24.24)!

    Do you also see the same trend in the US?

    Love & blessings from France,

    FX

  • good4u
    Posted at 15:27h, 18 December

    @Elder Matthew

    I certainly respect your reservations and why the West doesn’t play a more prominent role as viewed by Joel and Walid during the 70th Week of Daniel. To me, when you understand that the Bible is Middle Eastern thought you must take western logic out of interpretation and look through the lens of Jews viewing everything as Jerusalem and Israel-centric especially the prophetic books. Then the Western role plays less significance in the End Times is resolved. Though the “ships of Chittim” (i.e. Western powers) are certainly there as evidence by Daniel 11:30 but not prominently.

    Blessings!

  • Vernon
    Posted at 18:50h, 19 December

    Bonjour FX,

    I am not so familiar with Albert Pike as to speak with certainty about him or his exploits. However, concerning the three world wars he supposedly spoke about, Pike himself alleges that he received the scenario in a vision. Judging from what history records of Pike, he was certainly not a Christian; and based on his explanation on the necessity for these three world wars, it is safe to assume that this vision was not revealed to him by God, but by Satan himself. The father of lies is not of the truth; and he certainly does not reveal truth to his servants – and certainly not biblical prophecy, which details his final destruction. Therefore, as Christians, it is unwise to reference any extra biblical, (or anti biblical) work, dream, vision or prophecy and attempt to harmonize it with the truth of Scripture – period. In the case of Albert Pike, you court the danger of looking to him for truth concerning the end times and not to what the scriptures reveal by the Spirit of God in his time. Look to God for truth through our Lord Jesus Christ (John 17:17) not Albert Pike, Harold Camping or any other dreamer of dreams and visions.

    Blessings,
    Vernon

  • Yochanan
    Posted at 09:53h, 20 December

    Bonjour FX,

    Though it may be man or the adversary who confuses and lies, it is all used beautifully in His wisdom. “You mean it for harm, The Almighty meant it for good”. The twists and turns of the story are wonderful.

    It is hard to see how people could have generally missed Islam “taking over” from Rome 1300 years ago over the land of Israel ( and as Joel has shown; many did not miss it but for in our generation until now). Perhaps if it had not been missed, The West would have been watching more diligently for the return of the Ottoman power. Instead I have a relative who has help pour $$$$$$$$ in to that revival!

    So, it was the fact that Islam took over from Rome, but also that there is such a gap in years from “old Rome” to “revived Rome”. On top of this I see that the fuel for this beast is simply not rooted in the West. Ishma’el and Edom with others, mainly in the middle east, have all the fuel (hatred) needed for what we see in prophecy. A largely apathetic materialistic West does not, I think. So many things fit now and I feel I’m facing a real enemy instead of one made up to distract me (even though there are these secret club/sociaeties). The rich are largely rich because of Saudi Oil and Blessings from the past waning away.
    So many scriptures came alive and finally fitted after feeling like they were closed and dark. That ring of truth.

    But there are a few other major twists arn’t there FX! 😉

    HalleluYah

    Yochanan

  • Yochanan
    Posted at 10:09h, 20 December

    P.S.

    I forgot to say that the “whole” world was under Babylon (It says in Daniel2). We know that it was not the “whole” world as we call “global”. How far the reach of the toes-empire is, must be seen in the light of Babylon, MedoPersia, Greece, and Rome’s reach, which was largely middle-eastern.

    Blessing
    Yochanan

  • Matthew
    Posted at 13:20h, 20 December

    In light of my earlier remark ( see December 18, 2013 at 1:12 pm ) :

    From Islam to NWO according to Irvin Baxter:

    http://184.106.73.225/index/detail/lib/people/sublib/Irvin+Baxter/ec/pvZjU1NTqX-iQJFrq0Nhlip6U24UUg4x

    Extremely interesting!

    Joel could you please comment!

    Thanks!

  • good4u
    Posted at 17:47h, 20 December

    Hi Elder Matthew!

    Now, I don’t DARE presume to speak for Joel (tho’ I’ve met Joel a few times) and Joel is a very busy guy and there may be a delay in his response. Therefore, would it be okay if I also responded to your last post and video link, please? 🙂

    First, have you read Joel’s books? If not, I would highly encourage you to do so! This may clear up your doubts about the West’s role in the End Times. Second, I started watching Mr. Baxter’s “old school” thinking and explanations. I was shaking my head A LOT in disagreement in light of what we know today and the march of Islam worldwide. My last post to you is indeed relevant to End Times understanding, imo. Mr. Baxter is making the same mistake that MANY, MANY Western Bible prophecy teachers make and he is just one of many. It is understandable and predictable. Mr. Baxter is using his Western logic and understanding attempting to interpret Middle Eastern thought in a Middle Eastern Book…the Bible, specifically, prophetic books! Bible prophecy students, ironically, have been down this rabbit trail before…using the revived Roman theory espoused by Hal Lindsey. Mr. Lindsey, to his credit, reignited the flame of interest to again study biblical prophecy back in the early 1970’s with his ground-breaking book and my interest as well back then. But alas, Mr. LIndsey theory was wrong and the West’s role in the End Times will be limited and diminishing as current world affairs suggest.

    Back to Mr. Baxter…tho’ well-intentioned and sincere in his appeal…I’m afraid he is sincerely wrong in his interpretation, imo. 🙂

    First, Mr. Baxter does not understand Middle East idioms. For example, he says that the WHOLE world will follow the Beast according to Revelation (his words, “new world order”). Really? Is thaaaaat right? (Sarcasm intended). Actually, the Apostle John is using a Middle East idiom meaning that in the Apostle John’s “world” (i.e., the Middle East) the Beast is menacing and formidable. If ALL people and nations followed the Beast on a global scale then we would have global peace! Ummm…I don’t think so and that’s not what transpires in either Daniel or Revelation. Therefore, Mr. Baxter’s understanding is in error.

    I could go on, but I think you understand my criticism of Mr. Baxter’s misunderstanding of prophetic Scripture.

    Joel, you are more than capable of speaking for yourself. I hope I have not overstepped my own understanding of what you teach and I do support. However, we as prophecy students are always testing what prophetic Scripture says in light of world events and the dependence of God’s Holy Spirit to remain teachable and humble. The future of what is coming is terrifying enough and we will be living it!

    Blessings to you!

  • FX
    Posted at 12:43h, 21 December

    Bonjour Yochanan & Vernon,

    Thank you for your respective feedbacks and insights. We are on the same page! 🙂

    Blessings from France (where the beast & its system is quicly growing…between 10 and 20% of the French population is Muslim…)

    Shalom shalom,

    FX

  • Vernon
    Posted at 23:43h, 21 December

    I will certainly be praying for you and the saints in France FX!

    Blessings,

    Vernon

  • FX
    Posted at 09:26h, 22 December

    Merci Vernon,

    This is vey kind of you. 🙂

    Shalom, love & blessings,

    FX

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