Why the Rapture did not, (and could not) happen on September 23rd, 2017

The following link is a simple PowerPoint file I created to help folks wrestle through some of the relevant texts related to this latest false rapture prediction: Click here for the PowerPoint file.

  • David Heazlewood
    Posted at 01:35h, 23 September

    Dear Joel,

    Thank you for sharing the Power Point and Scriptures.

    It is important to be specific and sensitive to the terminology and completeness of the Word of God, and how wonderfully central it is all about Jesus Christ.
    It is important to be careful in understanding the last days, and not mixing separate words like harpazo and anastasis to mean the same thing. It is great to encourage the brothers in Christ, especially as Paul, Peter, John and Jude and Jesus in Revelation 2 & 3, all wrote to all of us to warn of the apostate state the church would enter, and to continue the love for each other.
    Jeremiah 7 & 8, give us a heavy warning, including the topic of where our focus should be, and mourning for the situation like Jeremiah 9 is real.
    I am looking forward to our King and Lord Jesus’s return and His calling of us home soon,
    In Jesus love,
    your brother David

  • shawn brandom
    Posted at 12:23h, 23 September

    Mornin Joel,
    I have a bit of confusion in one part of this paper.
    On page 13 : Gabriel the angel, in the Book of Daniel also speaks of the
    resurrection happening after the time of this great tribulation:
    Page 14: “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over
    the sons of your people, will arise. (1st: Tribulation) And there
    will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a
    nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is
    found written in the book, will be rescued. (2nd: Resurrection)
    Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these
    to everlasting life, but others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
    —Daniel 12:1-2
    Is Michael and Gabriel the same Angel?

    Thank you Joel
    He has blessed you richly!

  • Joel
    Posted at 15:49h, 23 September

    No Michael and Gabriel are not the same angel. Gabriel is the angel speaking. He mentions that after Michael arises and goes to bat for Israel in her tribulation, the resurrection happens.

  • shawn brandom
    Posted at 12:49h, 24 September

    Thank you Joel for clearing up my confusion. Rookie eyes and understanding here.
    I read as much as i can about our Everlasting God and Savior Jesus Christ.
    I have been on the “shawns discipleship program”, it aint a good program.
    With men of God who rightly divide the word of truth, i slowly learn, but with many questions along the way.
    Your ministry has been a blessing brother, as well as brother Harrigan,samuel whitefield,adolph saphir horatio bonar walter c kaiser jr
    all the FAI articles, dalton and others.
    These are some of the things I have been slowly reading. Perhaps these will bless someone else as they have for me.

    Y’all have a super day in Him

  • Amour
    Posted at 10:25h, 25 September

    I just wanna ask about 2022 theory?

  • Ray VanDerLinden
    Posted at 18:29h, 25 September

    Joel, I could be mistaken. I thought a few episodes back Alan Kurshner talked about you believing in a pre-trib rapture perspective. I might have heard it wrong. From these notes I would conclude that you maintain a post trib view. Is that correct?

  • Joel
    Posted at 03:40h, 26 September

    I hold to the Pre-Wrath perspective.

  • Nancy Ludden
    Posted at 11:39h, 26 September

    Any way to share thiis on social media?

  • Jayna Melugin
    Posted at 15:12h, 27 September

    Joel, I’m SO thankful for your voice of clarity in such confusing times. I can’t tell you how grateful many of us are for voices like yours that help folks see very credible possibilities other than the current trending point of view. I was so hoping you would share your thoughts about this latest rapture phenom that is circulating now. Ever since the Feast of Trumpets and the Sept. 23 “sign” passed, I have some friends who are convinced of a 2017 Yom Kippur rapture. It’s all over social media. They use the dates of the rebirth of Israel in 1948, and the recapture Jerusalem in 1967 as starting points for counting days forward in this Jubilee year leading exactly to Yom Kippur. They say that, since it’s a Jubilee year, the “last trump” isn’t really blown until Yom Kippur. They say the rapture may be taking place 7 days after the “great sign”, which is Sept. 30th. They use scriptures from Lev. 25 and Daniel 9:25, as well as many other believable points. The way they present their case is very convincing. But I have doubts b/c I don’t hold to a particular position of the timing of the rapture. If you have the time, it would be such a blessing to hear your thoughts on this Yom Kippur rapture idea. Thank you so much! 💗

    Here are 2 links with their “proof”:



  • Joel
    Posted at 15:47h, 27 September


    Again, as this clear Scriptural presentation shows, the rapture/resurrection doesn’t happen until after the birth pains/Jacob’s Trouble. So it is impossible for the rapture to happen in a few days. No birth pains, no resurrection. Period.

    Second, this is all so predictable. When William Miller’s initial false date in the 1800’s proved to be false, he made up a new date several months later. When Edgar Whisenant’s false rapture date in 1988 didn’t occur, he wrote another booklet saying it was either in 1989 or soon thereafter. When Harold Camping’s false rapture date of May 21 failed to occur, he shifted the goal post to October. Now Scottie Clarke, God bless him, and all of the folks who were so confidently leading others to expect that the rapture would happen on September 23rd are now doing the same thing as the date setters and false prophets who came before them. They are grasping at straws, refusing to repent for date setting, and digging in their heals, protecting their reputation, and not truly thinking about the damage they are doing to the hearts of God’s people. Yet as sad as it is to watch, it was all so utterly predictable. I would like to say that October 1st will settle this, but many will likely just move on to another false date. The sad thing is that if you read the comments from folks on these videos or message boards, even the leaders of the movement themselves are calling anyone who disagrees with them scoffers and mockers. So the false prophets are praised and the pastors and teachers who actually did the unpopular thing and tried to warn the flock are labeled as mockers and scoffers. Very sad days indeed. Be encouraged however, the Lord is still faithful and seated on His throne eagerly awaiting His return. And with Him, we cry, Maranatha! Come Lord Jesus.


  • Christine Barnes
    Posted at 16:16h, 27 September

    Hi Joel

    I have been thinking lately about the birth pains, they can be long and drawn out or short and sharp and then the baby is delivered. Could it be that the length of the birth pains (in Gods terms) is going to be influenced by us the church and where we are at or where all humanity is at on the earth?

  • Ray VanDerLinden
    Posted at 23:17h, 27 September

    Hello Joel,

    Sorry to chime in on your rapture view again. I’m genuinely curious. To the pre-wrath stance. Some who say they are pre wrath don’t count the first 14 judgements as the final wrath. Only the bowls. Does your pre wrath view mean before the first seal or before the first bowl. I’m still navigating these waters, simply curious to understand.

  • Joel
    Posted at 05:54h, 28 September

    The actual birth pains, not the initial braxton hicks contractions, are repeatedly defined as 3.5 years. Daniel’s prophecy of 70 weeks is so critical in this.

  • Joel
    Posted at 05:57h, 28 September

    Hi Ray,

    This is a big topic. I highly encourage you get two books:

    Pre-Wrath: A Very Short Introduction

    The Rapture Question Answered Pain and Simple

    These will be perfect to help you understand the primary issues at play.


  • shawn brandom
    Posted at 23:45h, 10 October

    Hi Joel, what a interesting and wow terrifying journey looking for Yom Teruah was known as the day, “which no man knows the day or hour”. Here we go again?? I saw 2024 or 2026 by some folks out there saying this is that day, like what we just witnessed a couple weeks ago, one fella even said he knows but ya gotta pay up to get the secret. I simply don’t get it. Then I thought about the scripture that says Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.” Then the passage in 2 Thessalonians came to mind. I have to say that since I learned that our Holy Bible should be understood through an Israel Jewish Jerusalem middle east lens, (prolly got that mixed up) The scriptures truly became alive to me, like I never had experienced before. Especially the Old Testament. Ok I can see now I want to babble away, I just wanted to say, thanks and I will keep looking until you send an e-mail emp to my inbox. (harveydawabbitt humor, no one gets it) This is just a small message, not enough room on twitter. No need to post this. Take care, May His peace dwell with you and your family always.

  • Dan Snodgrass
    Posted at 11:32h, 22 October


    Enjoy your videos. Regarding the pre-wrath view, I’d be curious as to how you answer teachers like Chuck Missler who say that Christians won’t see even the beginnings of the birth pains of the first half of the 70th week because wewont see the rise of the Antichrist. If the Rapture happens after the covenant is signed that takes Israel under the wing of this world leader, then every watchful believer will know, within a few days or weeks, when the Rapture will be.

    Missler teaches that the Rapture happens well before the covenant is signed.

    Curious on your thoughts on this.

  • Joel
    Posted at 13:12h, 22 October

    Hi Dan,

    Chuck is a respected and much loved friend. Your question however is far too broad to expect anyone to answer in a post. This is the stuff of books. I would highly suggest reading a book that articulates the Pre-Wrath perspective. Alan Kurschner’s books are excellent. The Rapture Question Answered Plain and Simple is also excellent by Robert Van Campen. I’m sure these will help you get a better grasp as to where folks from both respective camps are coming from.


  • Leslie Kendall
    Posted at 16:09h, 29 October

    Mr. Richardson: I have been shown the order of events concerning the timing of the ‘rapture’ and the events in Revelation. Please, I’m not one of those ‘I had a dream about the rapture’ people. I have written a book and am in the process of finding a literary agent. Would you read it before publication and consider an endorsement? It’s a fast read and would only take a part of one evening.

  • Joel
    Posted at 16:20h, 29 October

    Hi Leslie,

    I apologize, but as you can imagine, I get a tremendous number os such requests. I simply am not able to review so many books. I wish you well in your efforts.


  • Steve Fowler
    Posted at 11:19h, 09 January

    I really enjoy your videos, etc. I was raised in a Pentecostal church and was taught that the rapture was going to be pre-trib. A few years ago as a teacher of teens, I was teaching the book of Revelation and I had my eyes opened. I started to notice that what I was reading along with many other verses out of Matthew, 2 Thessalonnians, John, Psalms, etc., pointed to something much different and saw that the rapture was going to be essentially post trib. I saw on one of your videos Nelson Walters and I subsequently obtained his book “Rapture – Case Closed”. I read it and think he is pretty much on the money with pre-wrath. I also saw a program from England with a man by the name of Bob Mitchell and he seems to speak much the same thing, as do you. I am curious if Nelson’s material is different from Alan Kurschner as I have not read any of his material. Can you offer some guidance? Again I really enjoy your videos and material.

    Aerospace Engineer

  • Joel
    Posted at 13:10h, 09 January

    Kurschner’s is a bit more technical and precise. But all in the same vain. I recommend it for sure.

  • Kenneth Reese
    Posted at 16:12h, 11 April

    Well written. So important for the church to understand this. For centuries the church has taught they will escape the tribulation. Raptured out before trouble comes. Going to be a lot of people unprepared. Thus the call from Jesus during the first few chapters of Revelation to overcome!

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